ceasar milan - Page 8

Good post Blitzen. Even a certified behaviorist will hang a dog coming up the line on them. Mighty Zeus I am glad you saw my point and I want to reasure you the Kool-Aid reference was not directed at you and I made sure I kept it in a separate paragraph.

mistake 

OK I have taken deep breath and promised myself not to scream at the computer screen any more. 
 First of all I would never call some certified theoretician to take care of a dog like the wolf mix CM is dealing with on a video . I would always much rather  call  someone like CM who have successfully dealt with  hundreds and probably thousands of dogs. For practical purposes dog's behavior and psychology could be described in one book.  Training methods of different kind of obedience in another, protection in another and behavioral modification in another.  OK 4 books,... or let's be generous 10 books max. On top of it, this is not a difficult subject.  It is not like mastering nuclear physics,   string theory   or   neurosurgery.  So just about any schmuck can master the theory  of this subject.  There are many books written about dogs. I have  read 10s of them and I still do read them, but to find something new in them is not that easy. BTW- Recently I have reread Animals In Translation by Temple Grandin.  Great book!  Thus someone who went through scrool ( yeah I mean scrool) does not impress me as a practical trainer until he gets bitten few tens of  times fixing dogs and  who successfully fixes few hundreds of such dogs. That diploma on the wall is not worth much in practical dealing with dogs.  In my opinion Cesar Milan and trainers like him have  more knowledge of dogs and guts to deal with them  in little finger then any certified theoretician will ever have. Most certified behaviorist recommend  put dog like that down or cut is testicles off.   Instead condemning people like CM, people like CM are to be thanked by SPSA and Humane Society and such  for saving these dogs instead putting them down  as not fixable as they do. 

Next I would say this.
I have dealt with m any dogs like the wolf mix. I specifically remember dog named Bubba - Rottweiler who would, for example, come to you  for a pet . As long as you petted all was OK . When you stopped petting, after short growl you find your self on a scary business end of a Rott in full blown tenacious attack. I  remember asking the owner to put the dog outside so that we can talk in peace. I have seen short flash of fear in owners eyes. " Bubba out!" owner commanded, pointing through open back yard doors. Bubba lunched from distance of  8 feet with all 4 legs in the air at the owner,  knocked him on his ass and gave him the most convincing growl with his teeth 4 inches from his face. It was a dominance issue combined with total lack of intolerance of anything even mildly unpleasant and even stopping of pleasant.
I have worked with Bubba    with muzzle on in similar way as Cesar Milan. I have fixed the dog. Before me there were certified  animal behaviorists, vets and positive type trainers who all said put the poor Bubba  down.
  I can tell you about other dogs like that. In some instances  the owners rather then apply any  negative reinforcement  ( combined with positive ) and fix the dog, put their dog to sleep, because they reasoned to  me it is better for the dog to be dead then to get proper correction with a leash. Those make me livid. 
 To the people who claim in silly way that violence begets violence I would like to say that violance also stops violance. I would also like to say to them  that  during decades of my training career, 95% of dogs with dominance aggression where the dog is overly protective of their owners or overly aggressive towards their owners were trained by positive methods only in big  stores training programs or well meaning but totally wrong or  misguided individual positive only trainers.  Now I am not saying that all dogs trained with + methods will turn that way, but  I am saying that in my experience 95% of dogs with such issues were trained with + only without ever knowing what is correction. The remaining 5% dogs were dogs which were not trained at all or were trained improperly. I have never seen dog with this issue which was properly trained with +/- method. 
   
Observation to think about: The PC,... + only approach to training dogs is then not very successful with some breeds and leads to ban of such breeds in the states or countries like Canada , GB  and so on. The general forced mandatory  spay neuter ordnances like in LA county are also result of such pussyfied approach to dogs.  Ban them, kill them, cut their testicles. Is the result of such approach , I firmly believe.
 The question I ask  is : why such bans and policies and laws were  not necessary  in former times?
The answer is because common sense was more common and proper methods of training were used and people would not say oh - my and faint when you showed them a  pinch or chock collar. . 
Prager Hans

 Yesterday I read someone referring to my decision to neuter Fidu. I dont like it thread became something personal, the subjet is about CM methods,  it has not to be one poster against other poster,  Cesar Millan is able to defend himself, I m arguin in favour of whom have no voice. Everyone here  present his/her arguments and the other listen or read in this case,  respectfully  and answer in favour or against the post or the subjet. But i will let clear That i not only neutered Fidu, I also neutered, Panterita, Ojito, Bella, Negrote, Dulce, etc, etc (I have a lot of rescued pets) I also neutered my neighbours' dog and cats, and someone who passed  by my home. The problem with Fidu was i didnt want to neuter him because he is very heavy and i was afraid he would have hips problems. But i finally decided to neuter him in order to solve his problem of dominance according the  advice of my veterianry. This is a diferent subjet than the one we are discussing here. Anyhow if I or other at this forum had made something wrong it is not excuse someother mistreat the pets, What I said about C Millan is that he use the dog to earn money not matter if he destroy them  so long it is quickly enough to make his show, no matter the psychological trauma, or the injuries or the suffering. It is obvious he is nor qualiffied to do that work properly.   Here you have an article who describe what I think and it is difficult for me to write in english.

 

 

http://www.yelp.com/topic/anaheim-cesar-millan-dog-rehabilitating-techniques-inhumane

Mentayflor,.. please understand that It's all about money . Certified Dr behaviorist what ever  want their share of the business thus put   trainers like Caesar Milan down, call their methods inhumane and outdated and use other appropriate PC buzzwords,  forces gov  to  pass laws and influence under informed public. It must be really frustrating for them to go for many years to schools and realize that they did not learn any more then regular dog trainer can do. 
Same old song. 
Prager Hans

Hans,  while agreeing with much of what you've said,  I'm not sure we can say that
'positive only' training methods have led to the banning of any breed, at least in the
UK.  The theory of that might have had its influence on our RSPCA and the law-
makers, but I suspect very few Pits were being trained to fight using positive-only
methodology  !    And the other breeds banned in '91 by the UK Govt. were hardly
even represented in GB, most ppl hadn't even heard of them (much less had them
or tried training them, using any method).  I really couldn't say how much, eg, the Dogo
and the Brazilian breed had been subject  to 'PC' training practises in their own countries,
but I have my doubts there too.


Edit: See, I can't even remember properly what the other 3 breeds were
unless I stop and look it up, that's what household names they are here !

Prager, If you are a qualied plumber and have spent a lot of time training yourself,  you deserve what you earn, you can make some mistake but you are honest, and if you are unable to to comply that job you would apologise. But if you just want to accumulate money, and you make a desaster in the kitchen of a customer. As soon as you left the house that woman will have a bigger problem. With the animals who are innocent being we should have greater respect. It is my opinion.

Ho-ho !  Not wanting to derail, but since you mentioned it,
there are hundreds of cases in England every month of
supposedly qualified builders and plumbers who take
peoples' money (in advance), then F up the job and disappear.
Many of these still do it even though they have other, satisfied,
customers too.  VERY hard to get apology, or money returned
(despite our Consumer Laws).  I don't think you can begin to
compare these issues.

Hi Hundmutter, it is the same in my country!!!! haha