Our struggle with Degenerative Myelopathy - Page 8

the fact that the OP whined to Clemmons about people "not believing him" as opposed to sending a list of symptoms and progression of disease

Nancy, Dr Clemmons received the complete list of symptoms and the protocols what we had been doing. The list was the same as the one posted here. Should I get a more conclusive statement from him, I am happy to post it. BTW, everyone can contact Dr Clemmons and ask his opinion. He knows the case.

Totally agree with you - there is no point to argue anymore.

AndyG

Already did, some while back. Gave him all the symptoms and history from your posts (removing any reference to dogs or people's names) as a hypothetical case and questioned whether it was likely that the dog had DM. Here is his response:

From: Clemmons,Roger M
Subject: Re: Question please

The onset of hemiparesis without localizing discomfort generally falls under the category of vascular disease. A common problem is an FCE (fibrocartilagenous embolization) which causes signs similar to those described in this hypothetical case. Usually, things will improve over time and physical exercise is a key component in recovery. I think the early intervention with short-active steroids and polyethylene glycol can help speed recovery as will acupuncture which helps stimulate spinal stem cell repopulation. Today, we can often see the infarcted area on an MRI and is why we can correctly diagnose more of these problems. Luckily, FCE is not likely to recur, although there are other causes of spinal infarction which can recur.

RM Clemmons, DVM, PhD, CVA, CVFT
Aso Prof of Neurology & Neurosurgery
SACS/University of Florida
2015 SW 16th Ave
Gainesville, FL 32608
rmc@neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu

_________________________________________________________________

To close the door on this thread and to summarise.

From the few lines that AndyG posted as a reply from Dr Clemmons the only relevant part of it is "and rarely cause harm if the diagnosis is accurate."

What he refers to of course is that if you are treating for DM and it is not DM you are not providing correct treatment for the true condition, which may cause harm.

When the simple question 'from the symptoms and history' is it likely that this is a case of DM? was asked, a more conclusive statement to the contrary, as above, was offered by Dr Clemmons. This concurs with all known veterinary science about the disease, and with the experience of those who have, and have had dogs with this condition.

I suggest that if anyone wishes to know more about the Clemmons protocol they either contact Dr Clemmons directly, or visit one of the well established, well informed DM support sites such as http://www.mzjf.com/test.html operated by Marjorie who works very closely with Dr Clemmons. You will find no exaggerated claims of what can be achieved, but you will find details here on just about everything you need to know about DM, including the list of tests which need to be done to rule out other conditions. The most obvious of which (MRI) was not done in this case. The site is run by someone who has vast knowledge and experience about DM. The most surprising thing about the OP, is that, even after supposedly having a dog with DM, he knows virtually nothing about the condition. AndyG - remember this thread. If you are ever unlucky enough (and I hope you are not) to have a dog with DM in the future believe me you will know, you will see the difference. then perhaps you will understand what this was all about.

One thing this thread proves is that you have to be very careful who you listen to, and be sure to do you own thorough research as well.

Excellent summary and very good advice, Abby.

I would like to add some things: Based on the facts Andy provided, I believe that Golo had FCE, although we will never know for sure.  Many of the things Andy provided for Golo, such as the massage therapy, exercise, encouragement and love, definitely helped Golo's recovery and quality of life. Andy's efforts were surely not in vain. It is even possible the dietary changes and supplements helped.

I  am as certain as anyone can reasonably be without a necropsy that Golo did not have DM and Dr. Clemmons' protocol is not what brought Golo back. Golo simply did not have the classic onset or progression of DM. He more closely exhibited the symptoms (see below) of a dog stricken with FCE. Yes, FCE typically strikes younger dogs, but it can strike a dog of any age. Dogs stricken with DM exhibit an insidious onset and a gradual decline and dogs striken with FCE exhibit a sudden acute onset, such a Golo did. Andy mentions Golo had some symptom prior, but Golo was 12 years old, so some arthritic changes of the spine and/or hips are very possible.  Having stated the above, I strongly encourage anyone who has a dog with DM to put their dog on the Dr. Clemmons protocol because it has benefited many DM dogs. Exercise, PT, massage therapy are all VERY beneficial for a DM dog as well. Acupuncture and laser therpy are also worth trying.

Quote from AndyG:
"I wanted to share our two years' experience of struggling with Degenerative Myelopathy. In February 2010, our brilliant Golo vom Rabenbusch was diagnosed with MD. He was 12 years and two months by that time. Everything happened instantly - he collapsed during a walk and could not move his left hind leg at all. His leg was completely lifeless, no reflexes at all. Now I understand some worrying signs of DM like dragging his foot, that we were supposed to see before, but unfortunately we had known nothing about DM when it happened. The local vet inspected Golo the same day yet could not suggest anything. Since I understood that it should be related somehow with the nervous system, I asked the vet to give him a strong injection of B12 with C.

When we got back home, Golo could not walk at all unless being supported. He could not even stand to pee.... we had to lift him up and press the stomach to empty his bladder. I am not a doctor but had a very strong feeling that we don't have a lot of time before it becomes irreversible. So, my wife started scratching his forehead and belly to trigger some leg movements. Then, I started a gentle Shiatsu massage along his spinal cord. I was keeping his left leg in one hand while applying tapping massage on two sides of the spinal cord, from the neck to the bottom. When moving down along the spine, I noticed a tiny area where he was still showing some leg reflexes. That area I was focusing on for 5-7 min of a single massage session."

I left out the list of what Andy did for Golo due to space, but anyone can refer to his original post on this thread. He refers to the exercises, massage therapy, Dr. Clemmons protocol, diet and other supplements.

"In a month time, he was feeling much better and we continued our usual long walks on the beach and in the forest. We had been continuing EACA and NAC medication for a year or so, though giving him some breaks of three weeks after a three weeks of medication. Though sometimes he was dragging his foot and limping (not even all the time!!!), his life (and ours) got back to normal. Usually people advise against stairs for dogs with DM. I have to disagree. To struggle with that disaster, dogs need a lot of exercise. That's why Golo was climbing to the second floor on carpeted stairs every day. First, under our control - supporting his back, then completely alone."

http://pethealth.petwellbeing.com/wiki/Dog_Fibrocartilaginous_Embolism_-_FCE    I have underlined specific points for emphasis.

Symptoms and Diagnosis of FCE

At the onset of the embolism, there might be a painful yelp when the dog collapses or suddenly becomes weak in one or multiple limbs. However the pain is not persistent, and no other signs of trauma can be detected except for the paralysis. In milder cases the dog might maintain some degrees of motor function, but slip and fall more than usual.

Diagnosing FCE is usually a process of elimination since the blocked artery will not show up in X-ray. One distinguishing feature of FCE is the lack of pain, since there are usually considerable amounts of pain involved if the paralysis is caused by acute trauma or disc herniation. Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) can be used to positively identify an embolism, however most veterinarians do not have access to this expensive method. Currently the only way to be absolutely sure of FCE is a post-mortem autopsy. For the purpose of treatment and rehabilitation, the safe practice is to assume FCE when other possibilities have been excluded.

Treatment of FCE

The damage to the spinal cord is permanent, and therefore effectiveness of treatment is limited. However, dogs that receive treatment within the first 24 hours of the injury might have a better prognosis. While the effect of the paralysis cannot be reversed, it does not worsen over time, and many dogs will ultimately regain some level of motor function and lead an otherwise normal life. Relief techniques such as water therapy and massages will prevent muscle atrophy and help the animal to better function with limited mobility."

Andy,

Again, you did a great job with Golo no matter what he had and Golo was a very lucky dog to have you caring for him. God speed beloved Golo.

The best,
Char



Sorry about the edits. They were for grammatical reasons only.