Strong sit and bark - Page 8

 Sorta took the wind out of some sails, now didn't it ?  Reading what is right there in front of you really helps you choose wisely when picking dogs to work, title, breed. 

Kinda scary how people cannot see the nose in front of their face. : )

Jeff comments:
“The reality is that people would rather live in the fantasy that their dog is being "powerful" "dominant" and "showing aggression" than the actual fact that the dog is frustrated (AND STILL BE ABLE TO CONTAINED WITHOUT BITING), and has had his behavior shaped to fit a "look" or quite possibly just does so out of this frustration (WHICH IS REFRAINED FROM BITING). “

PS: I’ve used caps to differentiate and make my comments in Jeff’s statement. Personally, I like it very much to see a dog being able to restrain the bite and “look” like it is seriously guarding. I am not the one to test or say if it would bite me for real...... if that is what you (Jeff) is implying. On the same subject of sport, don’t you (Jeff) train your dog to “look” good competing in ring sport?

Jeff: "My Dog Buko will look like he wants to eat you alive over a paper wad, lighter, whatever. Just tell him speak and all hell breaks loose. He has a low threshold for frustration. He centers on the decoy. I never taught him any of this he just does it. Is he a better dog than most ? Yes. So maybe that is your answer, a dog that has lower thresholds is just a better dog."

PS: Jeff, don’t you think the paragraph above which you wrote (about fantasies people have about their own dog etc) is also applicable to you?

You are proud of your dog Buko and your achievements in your chosen sport but do allow others to feel the same for their dogs unless of course you fervently dislike shutzhund which will explains your criticism of the sport (title) and dogs (breed) who compete in schutzhund in your statement below.

Jeff: "Sorta took the wind out of some sails, now didn't it ? Reading what is right there in front of you really helps you choose wisely when picking dogs to work, title, breed.

Kinda scary how people cannot see the nose in front of their face. : )"

I say “To each to their own”.   No dog sport is without its flaws.  Just remember the real dogs are the ones working in the street to keep us safe from crimes.  Have fun with the sport.

Quote: On the same subject of sport, don’t you (Jeff) train your dog to “look” good competing in ring sport?

I fully admit when I am doing something for "looks". I do not tell others that it is power, dominance, or other silly shit like that. Most of the time what I am doing is trying to teach the dog in a way that he will not get screwed by the decoy.


 Quote: PS: Jeff, don’t you think the paragraph above which you wrote (about fantasies people have about their own dog etc) is also applicable to you?


No. I said "looks like" he will eat you. Feel free to come and work the dog and make up your own mind about him. I doubt you will say I am wrong after that.

Quote:  Just remember the real dogs are the ones working in the street to keep us safe from crimes. Have fun with the sport.

Yes, of course. The "street" dogs. What was I thinking ? Easier to train, less need for control, and I get to hang a badge on him which is also very "street" ! 

An entirely different subject. Still the reality of what people perceive is still there. Perception is what saves the "street" dogs an awful lot of the time as well. 

There was a "street" dog that was choked to death by a teenager in Houston last year. The handler went looking for the kids and couldn't hear over the helicopter and so he let his dog go off lead. That perception cost that dog his life in a way that absolutely disgusted me. I have been in situations personally where I had no air to breathe and I cannot ever with the typed word express what I feel about what happened to that dog. This is not about whether the guy made a mistake in tactics, it is about the perception of what a dog is. I saw a picture of the kid, his clothes were shredded. shredded clothes. 

Quote: On the same subject of sport, don’t you (Jeff) train your dog to “look” good competing in ring sport?
Jeff: I fully admit when I am doing something for "looks". I do not tell others that it is power, dominance, or other silly shit like that. Most of the time what I am doing is trying to teach the dog in a way that he will not get screwed by the decoy.

So Jeff, what make you think others are not doing the same. Perhaps the temperament of the dogs (and in some cases, the handlers) are questionable in their chosen sport. Perhaps low threshold for frustration is required in ring sport to accentuate their best qualities. Can you say the same for these types of dogs in the schutzhund sport arena?


Quote: PS: Jeff, don’t you think the paragraph above which you wrote (about fantasies people have about their own dog etc) is also applicable to you?
Jeff: No. I said "looks like" he will eat you. Feel free to come and work the dog and make up your own mind about him. I doubt you will say I am wrong after that.

Jeff I do believe you if you say your dog will bite or eat me. It is not the point. No one can really criticize the same about someone else’s dog unless it is blatantly obvious like a fear biter!

Quote: Just remember the real dogs are the ones working in the street to keep us safe from crimes. Have fun with the sport.
Jeff: Yes, of course. The "street" dogs. What was I thinking ? Easier to train, less need for control, and I get to hang a badge on him which is also very "street" ! An entirely different subject. Still the reality of what people perceive is still there. Perception is what saves the "street" dogs an awful lot of the time as well.

I mean to say the Police dogs, not any street dogs. I am not an LEO with a police dog. Perhaps you would like to question LEOs their perception of what constitute a good police dog relevant to their work (not sport) .  Like you say....."perception" is what saves the "street" dogs an awlful lot of time.

I say “Different strokes for different folks”

It is my opinion that there is not enough information in a video to tell me what I really would like to know about the dog.

Exactly my point, leeshideaway......not for the sake of criticizing.........but for understanding the individual sport (as they are afew) and knowing what type of dogs breeders are producing for their purpose.

Poseidon,
Please keep in mind that there are people that will argue with you just for the sake of arguing.  Often times they do not know what they are talking about or even believe the position they have taken.  They do it solely to argue.  There is no winning in these exchanges. 

Jim

I'm still waiting for Jeff to put Bucko's hold and bark vid in here.

I put in mine even though she's young and just beginning.

 Quote: It is my opinion that there is not enough information in a video to tell me what I really would like to know about the dog.

Which video ? Are you talking about the Max brother video ? How long does it take you to read what is happening ?

Quote: Poseidon,
Please keep in mind that there are people that will argue with you just for the sake of arguing. Often times they do not know what they are talking about or even believe the position they have taken. They do it solely to argue. There is no winning in these exchanges.

Care to be more specific ? What do you read in the hold and bark ??

 Quote: I'm still waiting for Jeff to put Bucko's hold and bark vid in here.

Funny enough, I am not sure that I have one that you can see off hand. I will have to look. Most of the video I have is trial stuff and of course it is never where the camera is.

I will look.