This is a placeholder text
Group text
by Slamdunc on 10 July 2010 - 20:07
Phil,
Things must really be different in the mid west. We buy our dogs, we train them ourselves and we maintain them. No maintenance contracts or agreements. All we get is a guarantee, that the dog is healthy. Maybe some very small PD's do this. I can tell you that none that I know of in NY or VA would do this.
Please fill me in where this is done?
Jim
Things must really be different in the mid west. We buy our dogs, we train them ourselves and we maintain them. No maintenance contracts or agreements. All we get is a guarantee, that the dog is healthy. Maybe some very small PD's do this. I can tell you that none that I know of in NY or VA would do this.
Please fill me in where this is done?
Jim
by Phil Behun on 10 July 2010 - 20:07
Illinois. Two of the most popular providers in this area are my former partner Alex Rothacker of TOPS Kennels in Grayslake Illinois and Ken Licklider of Vohne Liche Kennels in Denver Indiana. Dogs are trained by full time dog trainers and introduced to their handlers during multi-week courses.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 10 July 2010 - 20:07
Quote: Jeff,
Mondio is not that big of a deal, and the control needed is far less than that needed for SchH or Police K9 work.
Not that I have ever seen.
Quote: I watched a few of your videos and saw the decoys in the suit banging on barrels, what is the big deal? Is it that hard to keep a dog under control under distraction?
Pretty sure we have completely different dogs then. Of course, since you are the better trainer, you should notice things like that.
Quote: I just expect way much more from a police dog than I ever would from a SchH or Mondio sport dog. I guess I have high standards.
Pretty sure you are full of crap. Just go ahead and enter one of those easy trials, and film it. Lots of talk, but no proof. bla bla bla
Quote: Again, poor training. If the dog has an issue with gunfire you never shock the crap out of them for not coming back during gunfire.
Again, pretty sure when you are dealing with the weaker dogs, you don't understand what I am talking about. I am sure your dog is glad to get out of there, and just comes right on back. However, my dog does not. Cute use of the word "issue" did you have to think about that one for a while ?
Quote: Speaking of higher standards, IMO teaching a dog to go over a jump and allowing its feet to hit is sloppy training.
Again, I don't see any vids of your dog doing anything. To me the jump is a matter of confidence. Like I said, she is clearing the half door in the kennel, not touching it.
As far as Buko, he actually was taught the way that you describe. I am not willing to do the things necessary to make him lift his feet up. He is too old to be doing that to him. But, I guess you didn't want to see his jump at the Nationals. LOL When you get a dog that can jump over a meter, let me know. By the way, the jumps are the last exercise before the bitework, but you knew that already right ?
Every time you post, it becomes clearer and clearer that you have some basic skills, and an average dog. Maybe one day you will post some of your stress free ob, but I have a feeling that you know good and damn well what will happen.
Kinda sucks when you have to discuss things with someone, unlike MANY here, who actually knows what he is doing. I will keep titling dogs, and posting video, and you will keep typing, and act like you have something going on. LOL
Mondio is not that big of a deal, and the control needed is far less than that needed for SchH or Police K9 work.
Not that I have ever seen.
Quote: I watched a few of your videos and saw the decoys in the suit banging on barrels, what is the big deal? Is it that hard to keep a dog under control under distraction?
Pretty sure we have completely different dogs then. Of course, since you are the better trainer, you should notice things like that.
Quote: I just expect way much more from a police dog than I ever would from a SchH or Mondio sport dog. I guess I have high standards.
Pretty sure you are full of crap. Just go ahead and enter one of those easy trials, and film it. Lots of talk, but no proof. bla bla bla
Quote: Again, poor training. If the dog has an issue with gunfire you never shock the crap out of them for not coming back during gunfire.
Again, pretty sure when you are dealing with the weaker dogs, you don't understand what I am talking about. I am sure your dog is glad to get out of there, and just comes right on back. However, my dog does not. Cute use of the word "issue" did you have to think about that one for a while ?
Quote: Speaking of higher standards, IMO teaching a dog to go over a jump and allowing its feet to hit is sloppy training.
Again, I don't see any vids of your dog doing anything. To me the jump is a matter of confidence. Like I said, she is clearing the half door in the kennel, not touching it.
As far as Buko, he actually was taught the way that you describe. I am not willing to do the things necessary to make him lift his feet up. He is too old to be doing that to him. But, I guess you didn't want to see his jump at the Nationals. LOL When you get a dog that can jump over a meter, let me know. By the way, the jumps are the last exercise before the bitework, but you knew that already right ?
Every time you post, it becomes clearer and clearer that you have some basic skills, and an average dog. Maybe one day you will post some of your stress free ob, but I have a feeling that you know good and damn well what will happen.
Kinda sucks when you have to discuss things with someone, unlike MANY here, who actually knows what he is doing. I will keep titling dogs, and posting video, and you will keep typing, and act like you have something going on. LOL
by Jeff Oehlsen on 10 July 2010 - 20:07
Quote: Most K9 dogs are trained by professionals and then sold to departments with some kind of maintenance agreement. Problem is, most departments don't want to "pay" for follow up work so they get themselves a Ray Allen catalog and a coupla' sleeves and pass them out at roll call and "poof" they're dog trainers.
That is how almost all of the dept's do it. Maybe a few do it the way he describes, but how many, 5 ?? lol
That is how almost all of the dept's do it. Maybe a few do it the way he describes, but how many, 5 ?? lol
by mkwellborn on 10 July 2010 - 23:07
Wow...
Slamdunc. I felt like your - 10 July 2010 - 05:07post was alot like your username. I think I love you now. haha ;)
BTW I have an aquaintance who is now retired but used to evaluated and select dogs for the TN state patrol. From what I gathered from her they did their own training.
Slamdunc. I felt like your - 10 July 2010 - 05:07post was alot like your username. I think I love you now. haha ;)
BTW I have an aquaintance who is now retired but used to evaluated and select dogs for the TN state patrol. From what I gathered from her they did their own training.
by simon2629 on 10 July 2010 - 23:07
I went to www.schutzhundk9.com today, it was almost 2 hours drive but was worth it. They check the dog and I was told she is fine on the size and weight, I saw some 6 month WL puppy just a bit bigger than her. At ver first of trainning, she doesn't have any idea and just sits there while others getting crazy for the decoy, then the trainner use bit rag on her, it gets her attention, even it's not as great as others in the club, but it's progressing.
After we get home I went to water my yard, she seem really interested with the water and chased all over the yard.
Here's a short video to share with you guys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agOBOKvPDq8
I'm going to order a dog bite rag. Please give me more advice.
Thank you all.
After we get home I went to water my yard, she seem really interested with the water and chased all over the yard.
Here's a short video to share with you guys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agOBOKvPDq8
I'm going to order a dog bite rag. Please give me more advice.
Thank you all.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 11 July 2010 - 00:07
I looked at the place that you put a link to, and it looks like they have showline dogs as well. You don't have to "order" a rag, you can make your own.
I also saw the water chasing, sounds like you are starting to like the dog. Good luck to you.
I also saw the water chasing, sounds like you are starting to like the dog. Good luck to you.
by Steve Schuler on 11 July 2010 - 01:07
Hey Simon 2629!
I'm very glad to hear that you got your pup to a training facility and that you are beginning to do some work with her. I watched your video and enjoyed it very much! I think she is a very nice looking pup, for what that is worth. Hopefully as time progresses she will prove to be a very good match for you and that she will be able to meet your desires and needs. Of course no one but you will be able to determine that.
I was thinking about you earlier today and wondering what you were thinking about all that has been discussed in the course of this topic. As you have witnessed, there are many differing perspectives and opinions and it can be pretty difficult to sort it all out. I sure haven't gotten very much sorted out through four German Shepherds over 35 years, but I'll let you know if I do! If I had any good advice to lend you surely I would, unforunately I don't.
Good Luck with your pup!
SteveO
I'm very glad to hear that you got your pup to a training facility and that you are beginning to do some work with her. I watched your video and enjoyed it very much! I think she is a very nice looking pup, for what that is worth. Hopefully as time progresses she will prove to be a very good match for you and that she will be able to meet your desires and needs. Of course no one but you will be able to determine that.
I was thinking about you earlier today and wondering what you were thinking about all that has been discussed in the course of this topic. As you have witnessed, there are many differing perspectives and opinions and it can be pretty difficult to sort it all out. I sure haven't gotten very much sorted out through four German Shepherds over 35 years, but I'll let you know if I do! If I had any good advice to lend you surely I would, unforunately I don't.
Good Luck with your pup!
SteveO
by Bu Inu on 11 July 2010 - 04:07
Sorry that this is somewhat off-topic.......
In my area here in Southeastern PA, there are only two PD's (mine included) that have their own in-house training within about a 60 mile radius of me. The rest of the smaller department K-9 Units are "vendor" trained. Some of these vendors have 4 week (or less) crash courses for the officer to learn how to hande the dog. As you can imagine, this does not make for a very good handler, and the handler has virtually no ability to problem solve in the field or resolve issues as they arise. Most of the departments that utilize vendor training are smaller departments that do not have the manpower rescources to have an officer off the street for several months while the handler learns to train the dog as well as becoming a good handler and decoy. I have come across a few handlers that take it upon themselves to further their knowledge and abilities by attending seminars and training with anyone they can, but that is more the exception than the rule.
And for Mr. Oehlsen, Why are you so condescending to people that do not do Mondio or see things the way that you see them? You do this on another forum as well. There is no sport that is the king of all dog sports or training. And no one way is the only way. As a PSD handler and trainer for over 18 years, I have learned alot of valuable information from Schutzhund trainers as well as PSA and PP trainers. I would not train to use some things (dog focused on the handler while heeling or dog walking backwards while escorting a prisoner, to name just a couple), but I find it interesting and educational to see how these aspects are taught for their related sports or disciplines. I may not use the "finished product" out of practicality for what I do, but some of the elements that go into training these things adds to my knowledge for correcting problems or making the basic training smoother. Knowledge is not a bad thing and every K-9 training program (sport, PP, PSD, etc.) should evolve and improve as time goes on. In essence, learn from each other.
You seem to bash the PSD and Sch people the hardest, and it doesn't make much sense. Sch is an excellent venue for everything from people that want to get into higher levels of competition all the way down to the person that wants to do something with their personal dog that they love. Some dogs and handlers may not achieve national status or even compete at anything more than a club trial, but the handler is still learning something about training and handling their dog. As for PSD, I personally don't train in any sport venue and my handlers are not permitted to veer from their course of PSD training. It has nothing at all to do with fear of competition as much as I don't want to take any time away (from what little we have) to work on concepts that would be used (for the most part) only at a trial or competition. We spend a tremendous amount of time working on refresher training of actual calls or scenarios that each handler runs into. When one handler gets an apprehension or an usual situation, I spend hours and hours with all 6 of my teams building confidence and working on possible variable outcomes all done for the purpose of officer safety as well as the safety of the public.
Maybe it's just a bad attitude or some subconscious dislike of police, or even trying to bolster your own insecurities, but whatever the case is, there are people coming to these forums to learn and to get honest advice without reading the harsh statements and berating that you do for some reason. You do at times offer good advice, but more often than not in the same thread, you are telling someone that they suck, their dog sucks, their sport sucks, and on and on. It has to be getting old to alot more people than just me
In my area here in Southeastern PA, there are only two PD's (mine included) that have their own in-house training within about a 60 mile radius of me. The rest of the smaller department K-9 Units are "vendor" trained. Some of these vendors have 4 week (or less) crash courses for the officer to learn how to hande the dog. As you can imagine, this does not make for a very good handler, and the handler has virtually no ability to problem solve in the field or resolve issues as they arise. Most of the departments that utilize vendor training are smaller departments that do not have the manpower rescources to have an officer off the street for several months while the handler learns to train the dog as well as becoming a good handler and decoy. I have come across a few handlers that take it upon themselves to further their knowledge and abilities by attending seminars and training with anyone they can, but that is more the exception than the rule.
And for Mr. Oehlsen, Why are you so condescending to people that do not do Mondio or see things the way that you see them? You do this on another forum as well. There is no sport that is the king of all dog sports or training. And no one way is the only way. As a PSD handler and trainer for over 18 years, I have learned alot of valuable information from Schutzhund trainers as well as PSA and PP trainers. I would not train to use some things (dog focused on the handler while heeling or dog walking backwards while escorting a prisoner, to name just a couple), but I find it interesting and educational to see how these aspects are taught for their related sports or disciplines. I may not use the "finished product" out of practicality for what I do, but some of the elements that go into training these things adds to my knowledge for correcting problems or making the basic training smoother. Knowledge is not a bad thing and every K-9 training program (sport, PP, PSD, etc.) should evolve and improve as time goes on. In essence, learn from each other.
You seem to bash the PSD and Sch people the hardest, and it doesn't make much sense. Sch is an excellent venue for everything from people that want to get into higher levels of competition all the way down to the person that wants to do something with their personal dog that they love. Some dogs and handlers may not achieve national status or even compete at anything more than a club trial, but the handler is still learning something about training and handling their dog. As for PSD, I personally don't train in any sport venue and my handlers are not permitted to veer from their course of PSD training. It has nothing at all to do with fear of competition as much as I don't want to take any time away (from what little we have) to work on concepts that would be used (for the most part) only at a trial or competition. We spend a tremendous amount of time working on refresher training of actual calls or scenarios that each handler runs into. When one handler gets an apprehension or an usual situation, I spend hours and hours with all 6 of my teams building confidence and working on possible variable outcomes all done for the purpose of officer safety as well as the safety of the public.
Maybe it's just a bad attitude or some subconscious dislike of police, or even trying to bolster your own insecurities, but whatever the case is, there are people coming to these forums to learn and to get honest advice without reading the harsh statements and berating that you do for some reason. You do at times offer good advice, but more often than not in the same thread, you are telling someone that they suck, their dog sucks, their sport sucks, and on and on. It has to be getting old to alot more people than just me
by Bu Inu on 11 July 2010 - 04:07
Sorry....I gt a little "wordy". Here's that last couple lines from my post that were cut off:
It has to be getting old to alot more people than just me, yet I am equally surprized that moderators for these forms have not addressed the matter either. I am not tying to be a goof here Jeff O., just trying to make some sense of it.
It has to be getting old to alot more people than just me, yet I am equally surprized that moderators for these forms have not addressed the matter either. I am not tying to be a goof here Jeff O., just trying to make some sense of it.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top