To Excesses ! - Page 7

Not the one on the Chinese site, no.  Although from Dango's name
looks like another oriental connection ?  Wonder why the message
the Chinese are getting from Germany is to breed for a huge head,
can't JUST be what's highly placed @ German Siegershow,  or it
would have attracted this sort of following already in other countries ?

Can I just stir this whole pot a bit more and point out that the majority
of people's contributions I've read on this forum seeking the 'blocky' heads
seem to be from the working rather than the purely show side, albeit those
'working' folk who also show under SV-stylee and are thus more concerned
with conformation points, to an extent.  Especially ppl favouring Czech/DDR
dogs.


 

buyers are a part of the equation as much as breeders are.  It's been my experience that the majority in GSD's don't know shit.  Working line/showline/byb pets, it doesn't matter.  They stay in their own little world and teach a dog to heel and suddenly they think they know it all.  The majority of showline people I meet, think a dog that yips and runs around a ring is the cat's ass and cheer and promote gutless goons as premier dogs to beholden and that's where they stay.  That's what they know, it's what they judge everything else by.  Before anyone gets all huffy, this isn't a one size fits all statement but over the years it is what I have seen.

Workingline are the same.  Most find a club, stay within that club and anything and everything that has ever happened there is the truth and everything else is shit :)  They know everything because they've done it all right at their club.  Just ask them.  The bloodlines used in that club are the best dogs on earth, nothing else compares, and they can breed by pedigree with the best of them,  because they know.

Within those groups then you have the breeders that suffer from so much kennel blindness and their pedigrees are so awesome they can't help produce the perfect dog :)

and yes I blame buyers.  They don't educate themselves very well.  They enamored with whatever they find.  Most don't go find dogs they like or learn about drives or temperament or anything.  They fall in love with puppies and fluffy fur and cute and that is what is perfect to them and that's what they continue to seek and promote and never learn another thing about the breed itself.

Of course there are those within all groups that spend months or years seeking out dogs and finding ones they like.  They interact, train etc.  They spend the next decade or two working hard and learning more and more and realize that after they titled their first dog, though they may have done more than the majority of most GSD people, they still don't know it all.  They thought they did at one point but realized there's always more.  There are breeders that are always looking for the best of the best, and breed those dogs.  a subpar dog with a killer pedigree is still a subpar dog. and they keep back dogs to work and see what they are actually producing.  They compete and train with their own dogs.  Not produce 50 puppies a year but continually buy dogs from overseas to breed and compete with.  Kind of says something about your dogs if you can't keep one back to continue a "line" or compete with at least once an a while.  

If the buyers are as clueless as some here want to believe, and forever doomed to such a state, they are the easiest to fool with a breeder's casts offs. They are not the one's promoting bloodlines with flowery speeches, and demanding breeders breed outside of the standard. That would be the tail wagging the dog. As if breeders are so easily swayed by buyer's ignorance. I just don't buy it. It was never true for myself or any other person who buys or rescues pets that I know, but it sure empowers the sub-par breeders to think it so. They get so self righteous when it was themselves with the power of the DNA, the whole entire time.
 

Zdog your analysis of GS is right on the mark and also indicative of what I have seen over the years. That's why the Internet is so popular with  beginners and the limited view people. There are so many sheep breeding dogs, and so many people breeding dogs that know next to nothing about genetics or the dogs they are breeding except for the actual two dogs being bred. I got so many private emails from long time breeders and practioners that said they couldn't believe the lack of knowledge of some in the discernment thread. Hey, but many here feel obligated to have an opinion on everything, even when they have zero knowledge or experience about what they are posting. Or the breeders or trainers who have never ventured out of their cocoon as you stated....these are the experts of today to many in the GS world.

Who is to blame, Gustav? The "sheep breeders" as you say, or the pet buyers of breeders of excellence? Seems to me zdog wanted to spread the blame. You just want secret email confirmations of your greatness, I think. 

Once again, it doesn't take an Einstein to realize whomever is in control of the DNA, creates the excesses, in numbers and form. A million emails from those same breeders can't change that fact.

The dog sitting in the snow looks like an off colored St bernard with prick ears.
I've seen this coming also. Unfortunately, I saw on another forum where some people were proclaiming the beauty of the "dish faced WL dogs and how much more intelligent they are :-/ " Big Bone" like it's a special breed is a comment I hear from people in the south a lot. Bucket head is another unfortunate description of WL pups. More is not better.

Some People! Lol. Not me, of course....

As Hundmutter said, Dango is not the one that started this. Sunsilver's dog is lippy, but not really that block headed. The dogs that I think started this are from: ​demuzaixian.com... I still wish we had pedigrees to see how the heads got that big. these below from another kennel, zgmyqzx.com
They have quite a few, most seem too heavy to get a good rating at any sieger shows any where.


​They have quite a few, at least a dozen dogs like this, much more massive than Echo, Vegas or Dango or any others on Pedigreedatabase. Because I can't read the language, I can't tell if they are crosses or a strain of GSD.

My above post was after reading only the first two pages.
Zdog, I won't say you were succinct, but I will say you were to the point. Good post.
Bee, the public is being told over and over again that the dog, SL/ WL,doesn't matter, must be titled or the dogs are crap. They pay top dollar for a pup out of V rated parents, SL/WL, doesn't matter, take your pick. Look what is being awarded those places. It certainly isn't the moderate, correct to standard dogs. Judges don't look twice at them. Big head, big bone= wet, loose skinned, droopy eyed dogs which are a caricature of the breed. The more red the better, til you end up with no black where blk is supposed to be so blk shoe polish comes out of the grooming box, and the more you breed for what the judges put up, the more the public believes that's the best. The result is dogs on page one.
Jmo

Thanks for clarifying, Hundmutter.  They didn't look like the same dog to me, but I couldn't be sure.  As for the triptych in the post above, especially the dogs in the second and thirds photos, along with the photo of the dog in the snow on the very first post: all frankly cry out to me "congenital defect" in both the foreshortened face and the overall body structure. Of course, the brachycephalic breeds got their starts with specimens that displayed such a spontaneous congenital defect, which was then capitalized on, with breedings constructed to concentrate the genetics involved with that facial structure. Depending upon the mode of inheritance it would only take a few affected individuals with these traits to form the foundation stock for a new breed to be created----if the issue is, in fact, genetic in origin--and perhaps that is the intention.