Breeders using Fero free dogs - Page 7

Christine, once again you have given a clear concise explanation based on everyday reality....Thx!

Christine & Hexe,
Thank you for explaining my thoughts & feelings on this whole subject in a much better way than I ever could :)
I know my reasons & the logic behind my choices, but I am not good at putting it into words that make sense. One of my brains nice little glitches.... it's hard to find the right words to explain myself sometimes.

This topic and the opinions are quite interesting.  A few years back when Fero appeared as 3-3, 3-4, 4-4, I think someone could more conclusively say that Fero MAY have a negative impact. Now that Fero is appearing way back in the pedigree ie 5th, 6th generation, I'm not sure how we can say that anything unwanted in the dog is a result of Fero.  In a 5-5 line breeding the amount of blood from that line is almost non-existent percentage wise.  What breeder concentrates on a line breeding that far back? So to say Fero free, is that Fero never appears or 6th, 7th generation is ok?  You can really be eliminating some strong options with a complete Fero exclusion. Just my 2 cents.

Kyle

Christine I am curious about what you mean by prepotent.  I am a newby and simply trying to get a grasp of breeding principles. I am guessing that you mean able to pass traits (both positive and negative) down the line effectively, but not necessarily in an autosomal dominant fashion.   So if we use screaming (or drive) as an example, would all Fero progeny have this trait ?   My new puppy will have Fero five times in the sixth generation ( don't worry I am very happy with both my breeder and the decision to get this puppy, so this discussion won't change anything there).  I have heard people talk about too much Fero etc.  So the big question for me is how much is too much (of any particular dog Fero is just an example)?  Also how much does being prepotent play in this?

I used to diligently read everything on the leerburg board and I read his comments on both fero and mink-he really doesn't care for either dog-I think the comments that were quoted regarding Fero were negetive comments -basically he is saying that off spring of fero have nerve issues and can not be used in police work and Bernard Flinks agreed with him-So I read all that and when I got my last dog-well she has Fero and Mink -While I understand what people are saying about fero being used too much and I agree that makes sense-there are dogs out there that don't have fero in the pedigree and people are breeding them-I am not a breeder -so this whole thing really doesn't impact me in anyway-I am cynical and do believe that breeders seem to be using that to sell a dog...just my opinion-As for the dog I own somewhere between the time she was one or two-I took her to a Flinks seminar and from what he said I thought he liked her-anyway what matters most is I have learned not to believe everything I read-and I think I will spend more time with my dog -Lastly if I was a breeder looking for a fero free dog  and had the knowledge to know why I wanted that I think I would be able to find some people to ask rather than coming onto the pedigree database    

I can understand it's nice to utilize something not widely available at the time, and not what everyone else seems to offer.  But if I wanted to explore, I'd keep one foot in the familiar zone, to retain some predictability, while one foot tests the waters.  A planned breeding comprised of one portion familiar / one portion something *unusual*

Forbes,
Use the information taken from Frawley very carefully and with a grain of salt.  First, I doubt Bernhard said anything like that and I wouldn't trust what Frawley says Bernhard said.  Bernhard had a fantastic Police dog, Fels, that was an Amigo vom Bracheler See son.  Amigo was a Yoschy son and hence from Fero through Troll.  Fels also competed at the LGA with Bernhard and was a tough as nails Police Dog.  If you knew Bernhard and spoke with him you would see he also does not agree with a lot of what Frawley says or does.  If you want to discuss good breeding and responsible breeders leerburg is not even in the equation.  Out of thousands of dogs that he has whelped only a couple turned out to be good.  I have seen many dysplastic dogs and many nerve bags come from Leerburg.  Over the years I can only think of a couple of decent ones.  A pretty poor representation for having whelped so many dogs, puppy mill comes to mind.

"Lastly if I was a breeder looking for a fero free dog and had the knowledge to know why I wanted that I think I would be able to find some people to ask rather than coming onto the pedigree database"

Yah, it makes no sense to inquire about dogs that don't carry the direct influence of one that's found in the lion's share of the bloodlines on an international forum, does it, forbes?  Since those dogs represent a so much smaller percentage of the overall population of the breed, it would be silly to think that perhaps there's a few enclaves in places further-flung than just over the state line, right? 

Always the contrarian, were I in search of, say, show line dogs that had no Uran Wildsteiger Land, I tend to believe that casting my line into the international waters via this forum might not only yield a few new contacts who had such lines, but perhaps even turn up the opportunity to discover additional alternative lineages that might prove as interesting as the one I already favored... Just seems like restricting my inquiries to only those I already know or have contact with would be no different than the narrowing of the gene pool in the breed that I was trying to avoid in the first place.

KYLE
When you have a dog that has been line bred say 6 times in 6 gen then line bred on some of those offspring and then line breed on them, the good and the bad from those breedings will take a long time to be watered down.

 

Actually, I don't look at Fero that much anymore, as I really look at the different subsets that usually go through Timmy and Troll. These two dogs represent the lion share of the sport lines that emanate from Fero. They tend to produce a different phenotype which must be factored in, then there are other Fero offspring that DON'T go through these two dogs. So in looking at a pedigree for ME, it is much more comprehensive than just Fero free....the combination and recombination of the dogs in a pedigree with Fero progeny and Fero subsets also have to be factored in. Dogs like Vox and Tim Abfhur represent a different outcome often than the more popular Troll/Timmy sons/daughters....there is a lot to this, but overall I still see similar patterns of breeding in sport world as I do other worlds....just a different emphasis. Jmo