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by Abby Normal on 18 September 2011 - 07:09
Ibrahim
100% agree they are not the majority, and your final paragraph is very true. I have seen the same thing first hand too. If some breeders are 'selecting' for it the situation will arise where it becomes more the 'norm'.
This is how all exaggerations in all breeds develops. These trends, ignored or even encouraged are so difficult to rectify further down the line.
100% agree they are not the majority, and your final paragraph is very true. I have seen the same thing first hand too. If some breeders are 'selecting' for it the situation will arise where it becomes more the 'norm'.
This is how all exaggerations in all breeds develops. These trends, ignored or even encouraged are so difficult to rectify further down the line.
by bazza on 18 September 2011 - 07:09
An extremely knowledgeable gentleman from the UK also agreed and used my very words " more a myth than fact ". Oh forgot to mention the gentleman also wrote books on genetics of the breed, bred and exhibited showline dogs, and dedicated his life to the breed. So keep on rolling your eyes, or maybe not and just open them???
Hi Carole, hope you and your better half are well. Bazza xx
Hi Carole, hope you and your better half are well. Bazza xx
by noddi on 18 September 2011 - 08:09
Morning Bazza n Abby.we are all very well thanks.Carole.
by Sunsilver on 18 September 2011 - 12:09
[sigh]
They ARE open, Bazza, and they still see a roach where you and you SL friends insist there is none!
They ARE open, Bazza, and they still see a roach where you and you SL friends insist there is none!
by bazza on 18 September 2011 - 14:09
Sunsilver, sorry but my "SL friends" and I do not, never have and probably never will " Insist there are none"!!! We would have to be blind to say that, however most here assume there is some sort of plague with roach backs and SL!! The SL world is way bigger than the PDB, get out there and have a serious look, in the flesh so to speak, instead of looking for faulty dogs on the PDB or internet. No one is saying there are no dogs with less than desirable overlines, but compared to the sheer numbers of SL dogs around it is a small amount, hence my more a myth than fact comment. Certainly not the plague picture you and others paint, that's for sure.
Don't you guys ever tire of this topic, debating it frequently on the internet? I certainly tire of reading it, as the comments mostly always come from non SL fanciers and the closest they have been to a SL dog or anything remotely to do with SL and shows is what they see and read here. Sad really as you really are missing out on something special, nothing can beat actual hands on, in the flesh experience!! Do any of you guys who see all theses faulty dogs around do anything about it, or do you just come on the PDB and bash the keys?? SIGH, INDEED!!
Don't you guys ever tire of this topic, debating it frequently on the internet? I certainly tire of reading it, as the comments mostly always come from non SL fanciers and the closest they have been to a SL dog or anything remotely to do with SL and shows is what they see and read here. Sad really as you really are missing out on something special, nothing can beat actual hands on, in the flesh experience!! Do any of you guys who see all theses faulty dogs around do anything about it, or do you just come on the PDB and bash the keys?? SIGH, INDEED!!
by myret on 18 September 2011 - 17:09
The slloped back and the much angulation in the gsd hindlegs are just for show because many believes that it makes a better trot because many call the gsd a trotter that the only reason , and show ofcourse
otherwise it has no benefit done nothing but breed a dog who has lost his athleticism as well as poorer muscle in the hindquarters and more back problems since the load on the back that the dog will lose muscle and athletic physical body that ensures it can be used as a working dog
I am looking at the working lines today and see that they are on the same way as the showlines working line breeders are breeding towards the more showline built dog what a shame
otherwise it has no benefit done nothing but breed a dog who has lost his athleticism as well as poorer muscle in the hindquarters and more back problems since the load on the back that the dog will lose muscle and athletic physical body that ensures it can be used as a working dog
I am looking at the working lines today and see that they are on the same way as the showlines working line breeders are breeding towards the more showline built dog what a shame
by Abby Normal on 18 September 2011 - 18:09
"In the process there was excessive exaggeration with some curved backs"
A curved back is not a straight back, the standard calls for a straight back. It's all a matter of degree, and this is where I think the OP phrased the question well, in asking about 'arched' backs, rather than roach backs, which are, as carole said very pronounced, and there are fewer of those around today.
The same situation occurred with overangulation. For years it was debated, just like this, and for years everyone denied any problems with O/A. Then it became virtually the norm for SL (certainly high profile showline in Germany, and subsequently the world follows suit) because nobody did anything about it at the time. IMO overangulation contributes to the expression of a curved back.
Now the SV have acknowledged it as a problem, but it is hard to undo, and frankly I think there is little will to 'undo' it on the part of the SV who are the only influential body in the breed. Some people who contribute to this ongoing debate actually own SL, so aren't SL detractors but are concerned by the path being taken.
The OP for example is quite new to the breed I think, and has asked the question in all innocence and quite unaware that it is like lighting the blue touchpaper, simply because she has observed the arched back. Out of the mouth of babes as they say.
A curved back is not a straight back, the standard calls for a straight back. It's all a matter of degree, and this is where I think the OP phrased the question well, in asking about 'arched' backs, rather than roach backs, which are, as carole said very pronounced, and there are fewer of those around today.
The same situation occurred with overangulation. For years it was debated, just like this, and for years everyone denied any problems with O/A. Then it became virtually the norm for SL (certainly high profile showline in Germany, and subsequently the world follows suit) because nobody did anything about it at the time. IMO overangulation contributes to the expression of a curved back.
Now the SV have acknowledged it as a problem, but it is hard to undo, and frankly I think there is little will to 'undo' it on the part of the SV who are the only influential body in the breed. Some people who contribute to this ongoing debate actually own SL, so aren't SL detractors but are concerned by the path being taken.
The OP for example is quite new to the breed I think, and has asked the question in all innocence and quite unaware that it is like lighting the blue touchpaper, simply because she has observed the arched back. Out of the mouth of babes as they say.
by myret on 18 September 2011 - 18:09
I dont understand how people can call the sloped back and angulated hindlegs pretty or god structure I simply dont understand there is nothing pretty about it nothing at all
and it does not benefit the dogs at all
and it does not benefit the dogs at all
by Sunsilver on 18 September 2011 - 18:09
Don't you guys ever tire of this topic, debating it frequently on the internet? I certainly tire of reading it...
No one's forcing you to read it, Bazza. And if you'll check the original post, it had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the SL/WL debate. The OP was simply seeking answers to why the GSD had changed, and the reason!
Haven't YOU got something better to do than to come here and drag a good, educational thread into the mud with your negative comments?
Gotta go: my mother is coming to visit, there's dog hair everywhere, and my one intact female has decided to come into heat! Drops of blood all over the floors are NOT going to impress Mom! What LOVELY timing for this to happen!
No one's forcing you to read it, Bazza. And if you'll check the original post, it had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the SL/WL debate. The OP was simply seeking answers to why the GSD had changed, and the reason!
Haven't YOU got something better to do than to come here and drag a good, educational thread into the mud with your negative comments?
Gotta go: my mother is coming to visit, there's dog hair everywhere, and my one intact female has decided to come into heat! Drops of blood all over the floors are NOT going to impress Mom! What LOVELY timing for this to happen!
by bazza on 18 September 2011 - 21:09
Sunsilver, educational for whom? Please also go back to the very 1st page of your educational thread and just see who first mentioned SL. Certainly not me my dear. To educate on a given subject one first has to be educated on said subject, clearly you are not. My comments are not negative, factual and truthful yes. How many here, including yourself actually have SL, bred SL, exhibited SL? I know you have a Shiloh, and an old SL with not good hips, but you have never been heavily involved in anything to do with SL and shows. So you and a few others here, are hardly in a posistion to educate anyone frankly!! Reading a few books, and quoting said books does not qualify, sorry!!
You bet I have better things to do, but who would correct you on your continuous incorrect info that you post. If anyone needs educating on the GSD, you should be the last person they should listen to. NEGATIVE is your middle name, geez!!
You bet I have better things to do, but who would correct you on your continuous incorrect info that you post. If anyone needs educating on the GSD, you should be the last person they should listen to. NEGATIVE is your middle name, geez!!
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