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by darylehret on 07 January 2011 - 18:01

So you are saying that Schutzhund FH tracking is an accurate measure of a dog's scenting ability?

Not me. I have a low personal regard for sport tracking. A TD once said to me, that sport tracking isn't really about the dog's scenting ability, as it is a representation of the dog's trainability in spite of what comes naturally to the dog.

by Slamdunc on 07 January 2011 - 20:01

I would say that a SchH FH titled dog can track, has good scenting ability and a good work ethic. When I see a good SchH 3 dog with an FH, it tells me that the dog has natural ability and a handler willing to put the time and work into training it. Daryl, why the low regard for sport tracking? I personally love it and enjoy working dogs in tracking, both hard surface, real world and sport.

Jim

by darylehret on 07 January 2011 - 20:01

Should a dog be forced to trail nose methodically to the ground at a controlled pace, if it accomplishes it's objective equally well with a combination of airscenting and cutting corners? As with most tasks in all phases of the sport, grading for style takes precedence to results. Just a personal view I have, as some people don't like attention heeling, some don't think full bites are necessary, but those I prefer. I just happen to dislike the formal charade of tracking, and in place of it, would rather do an article search, or an area find of a live subject.

by Jenni78 on 07 January 2011 - 20:01

Has anyone checked the temperature in hell today? I agree with Daryl re: sport tracking.

I will not try to tell my dog to work against his natural abilities to do something that comes natural to him in a totally unnatural way simply to prove how trainable and obedient he is.

by Slamdunc on 07 January 2011 - 21:01

The SchH style tracking is a test and has to be consistent to be graded and scored for trials. My SchH dogs are not forced to track with their nose to the ground. They are motivationally taught to track in a manner that is methodical and exacting. It is as much of a test of a dog's ability to focus and concentrate as it is a dog's ability to track. An article search is kids play compared to an FH track and an area search while fun is rather easy as well for dogs. I think both lack the challenge of an FH track and not as good of a test of working ability.
Jim

by GSDPACK on 07 January 2011 - 21:01

Wrong. I am all OK telling my dog to play by my rules. Different things for different obstacles.

"Stopa" means lets find all the articles while you follow a scent.
"Hladaj" means go, follow the scent and find me the guy and bite him when you do.
"Najdi" si means, go follow the scent and find me the object at the end of it and bark!

just becasue somebody does not know how to do some ob on a track doesnt mean that FH tracking is sport. It is discipline and it is FREACKING HARD... if it wasnt we would be having shit load of FH2 high level dogs that can be shiped on a plane and track the same crap in a different climate, surface.

Just becasue people find excuses why they dont want to get their asses in gear and do something with a dog, it doesnt mean FH dogs cant track. I will on the other hand go and get the most out of my dog I can! People who do, know, the rest just yapps.. and it is getting very high pitch for me here.....

I have FHIPO championship ahead of me.. it is hard work, discipline and the dogs have to have stamina and unbelievable WORK ETHICS to do this well...

Stop shitting on people's hard work!

by Slamdunc on 07 January 2011 - 21:01

Jen,

I will not try to tell my dog to work against his natural abilities to do something that comes natural to him in a totally unnatural way simply to prove how trainable and obedient he is.

Then stop doing obedience. It is pretty much the most unatural thing you can make a dog do.

Daryl, I'm not sure what you do with your dogs, I've heard you mention herding. I would also say that herding, bite work and most other sports are all unnantural for dogs. Except, maybe hunting.

Jim

by Jenni78 on 07 January 2011 - 21:01

Jim, who says I do obedience?

I can't stomach SchH tracking. Try as I might to overlook its tedious nature, I just can't. I might even do SchH if it weren't for the tracking. I like a faster paced track with a point to it. If you start a pup doing real tracking and SchH tracking, then fine. Differentiate the two. But to take a dog who is a good natural tracker, quite capable of tracking on all sorts of surfaces for long distances, and then try to start them over and make them keep their noses on the ground and go footstep to footstep, when they are perfectly capable of completing the track in about 30 seconds flat, I think, is counterproductive and pointless.

Now back to disagreeing with Daryl. <shudder> What a scary phenomenon that just took place, LOL.

by judron55 on 07 January 2011 - 21:01

Joe Kuhn.....nice blast from the past. That man knew dogs. An Fh trained dog is a tracking dog. You don't have to force train a dog to track.....maybe to be calm but that is different. My dogs love to track! All tracking is taught if there is a human at the end of the leash!

by GSDPACK on 07 January 2011 - 21:01

And on the other hand how many people can teach a dog to focus on a task for more than 5 minutes! LOL

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