workingline best new stud - Page 54

nice , but all dictionairies and charts wont help  you to breed a better dog

steve , let me simplefy my point
how much influence of orry do you really think your bitch has after so many generations of outcrossing

furthermore , a breeder who lets the  puppybuyer make the choice of what male he will use,thats a new one for me

Duke
I have been asleep for the last 7 hours so let me see if i am awake enough.
Orry as i said is 5-5,4 in the breeding of Izzy,His G,son won the WUSV his G.Gson and his G G G Son won the WUSV i am only naming the Paternal Line of Izzy.
On her Maternal side her mother is 5-3 Orry, Okay we have a huge amount of Dogs in that pedigree but Orrys Blood line is the main Influence if you get what i mean. and BY mating Izzy back to the Orry Line ON both the Maternal and Paternal Lines should strengthen that Line.
Let me go off Dogs to Pigeons Say i have a great Champion Racer Forget his Bloodline. So i say to myself i am going to breed around that Male Bird
So what do i do
Must Leave this Now I have to start the Day with the Dogs going out that will take me 2 hours so will finish it off after all is work is done for the morning

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/para.utkoma?fadir=509123&modir=588801


I,ve posted this before, This is a breeding i,m going to do this spring. It should by the definition set in this discussion help set prepotencey, correct?

If we don't discuss breeding or we don't discuss training, then what is left?  We could talk about photoshopped toplines, or our severe enamorment for Jenni's dog.  Maybe criticise my chartmaking skills.

For those with decades experience who think they know it all and nothing can be learned from the internet, then what are YOU DOING HERE ANYWAY?  I think it's unbelieveable that some of you wouldn't understand prepotency and what contributes toward it.  Kind of a central theme for breeding...

A 1-2 linebreeding on A-litter vom Matschenka, yes a high potential for prepotence, a "Breeding of breeders".  What Axel and Anja have in common phenotypically will be your best breeding strengths of the pups.

I will start this New
So a Champion Male Pigeon racer we will call him A
Next i look for at some length to require 3 Breeding Hens meaning Hens which have already produced Winners at National Level, Not easy or cheap to find , But supposing i have got them, We will call these Hens B C and D.
Now these 3 Hens and the Male are all unrelated to each other to start with but the hens have the common factor they Produce Winning Progeny, The Male A is a Champion racer and that is what we want to continue.
So we pair in turn Male A to each Hen B C and D, the Young birds from these three Matings are rigorously tested out Racing no Prisoners taken after all this is a vital testing time much money and  thought has gone into it, fail now will be a big setback if not found out to some degree at this early stage
So the Young birds Tested and we see what is left how they performed and if happy we go onto the next year
Year 2
The Male which is the Stud Sire A will be mated in turn to the best Daughters of Hens B C and D, these daughters must resemble in Physically as much as possible to there Father Stud A
So Stud A is mated to the daughters of hens B C and D of course they are his daughters and some will say that is Inbreeding, Well it is and it is not remember the Stud Male and the 3 Females are all unrelated to start with
So the Progeny of this close mating is again tested out any not coming up to standard is Suppressed as is the first Generation,
So now we see the Stud A is now Father and G.Father of every pigeon bred in the loft, and so you carry on To cut it short you have Half Brothers +sister Matings, Eventually you get Cousin Matings All at the expense of One Stud Sire MALE A so all that happens as time goes by is that you are Line Breeding to the Stud A this is called a Line Bred Paternal Line, Now we all know that the closer you breed going on Generations, will in time bring Failure, So whilst you are still Winning and Going Strong You bring in a Cross,

Continued
So we look for a suitable Cross to boost the Blood, So again i look for unrelated Producer Hens Females But with a difference this time. These Females must come from a Inbred Line Bred Family, They must be bred very much the way our New Family as involved. Not easy to find but we do find a couple to suit, Now These Hens again will be unrelated to each other and unrelated to our Stud Male A. In due course the Hens are Mated to Stud A and the Progeny tested hard if it comes up to standard the Best Daughters are Mated back to the Stud A and the Others to the Children of Stud A and the 3 original Hens, So you are mating Half Brother Sister But the common Factor is that Stud A is the Base of all, It is from these matings of Half Brother Sister of which we expect great things,
So here you see How i developed my Family over the Years Of course i have been in the Sport for 60 years But by doing it this way I have my own Family, which has won out of turn in three different parts of England and now doing the same in Belgium. so over time i must have been doing something right. This method does not only apply to Birds It can in part be applied to Dogs but a lesser degree, But for me a Breeder who is really interested in Breeding will like i hope to do in part try and go back to a great Ancestor, For myself i do not think i have enough time left in my life but i will hopefully make a start
One thing i will make very clear With Inbreeding and Line Breeding you Must start off with TOP QUALITY STOCK no matter what Species it is, Second Hand or Mediocre Stock is simply not good enough.
Finally you will see i have only introduced Females but really high class Females and the Second Time they were already Line Inbred so there makeup was the same basically as we had done the last couple of years This way you can go on for 20 30 years with just the One Base Male 
However this is what we term as a Prepotent Stud Sire in Stud A for generations after his passing are still performing at the highest level. it is not the first or second generation which gives a subject the word Prepotent is is the ability of the line to keep going on to greater things
Finally none of this has come out of Books or Internet, It is actual Testing and Working my own way over decades of proving in real life
Steve1

some people talk about breeding and inbreeding and some people do it and have hands on experience

one of my breedingproducts  , so no guessing or statistics

 http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/bouvier_des_flandres/pedigree/862564.html

she has got  the P litter lampegat (picard-petra) about 17 times in her ped



nevada is working well , a national champion , officially free of all common diseases in the breed
littermates with same healthtests in holland  belgium  south africa and panama

notice many of parents grandparents and great grandparents are of my own breeding

now this is a different story than a 5-5 linebreeding , and I wouldnot call any of this prepotent , because if we mate them with crap , a good part of the litter will be crap