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by Mackenzie on 05 February 2011 - 21:02
To Abby Normal and Carole
I am the one accused of scuppering the boat, however, the accuser has sat back and remained silent, providing no information whatsoever as to the details of the accusation. The only boat that I can see scuppered is the boat of democracy. It seems that a few people have decided that they have the right to keep everyone in the dark in this matter and other matters. It is not necessarily appropriate to provide all the details but there is no reason not to provide the identity of the subject matter. There is no breach of the Data Protection Act in doing this. The silence denies everyone interested in the breed the right to contribute in a worthwhile way to matters that will affect their interests.
I have scuppered nothing and I find it disappointing that of the 1111 viewings at the time of writing this post only five people have come forward and said they support the suggestion of a DNA scheme for the UK.
Mackenzie
I am the one accused of scuppering the boat, however, the accuser has sat back and remained silent, providing no information whatsoever as to the details of the accusation. The only boat that I can see scuppered is the boat of democracy. It seems that a few people have decided that they have the right to keep everyone in the dark in this matter and other matters. It is not necessarily appropriate to provide all the details but there is no reason not to provide the identity of the subject matter. There is no breach of the Data Protection Act in doing this. The silence denies everyone interested in the breed the right to contribute in a worthwhile way to matters that will affect their interests.
I have scuppered nothing and I find it disappointing that of the 1111 viewings at the time of writing this post only five people have come forward and said they support the suggestion of a DNA scheme for the UK.
Mackenzie
by Abby Normal on 06 February 2011 - 00:02
Mackenzie
This is all a bit bizarre. Talk of enemies within, and careless talk costs lives. I too noticed that SueB hasn't replied.
I can only think that in fact there never was any 'boat' to be scuppered, but quoting a 'need for silence' etc was an attempt to shut down the thread, and consequently any awkward questions for the breed council. There is more than one breed council member commenting on this thread though, and supporting the introduction of a scheme, and I hope that this does get raised and discussed seriously within the breed council. One persons's view does not necessarily reflect the opinion of every member of the council.
Of course breed council 'plans' should not be kept secret, and it is foolish to exclude what could be worthwhile contributions from those interested in the breed. Why should those 'plans' be set back two years by open discussion? One can hardly worry that the KC are likely to steal the ideas and implement them LOL. Though that would provide a solution!
This is all a bit bizarre. Talk of enemies within, and careless talk costs lives. I too noticed that SueB hasn't replied.
I can only think that in fact there never was any 'boat' to be scuppered, but quoting a 'need for silence' etc was an attempt to shut down the thread, and consequently any awkward questions for the breed council. There is more than one breed council member commenting on this thread though, and supporting the introduction of a scheme, and I hope that this does get raised and discussed seriously within the breed council. One persons's view does not necessarily reflect the opinion of every member of the council.
Of course breed council 'plans' should not be kept secret, and it is foolish to exclude what could be worthwhile contributions from those interested in the breed. Why should those 'plans' be set back two years by open discussion? One can hardly worry that the KC are likely to steal the ideas and implement them LOL. Though that would provide a solution!
by Videx on 06 February 2011 - 01:02
silence is much more preferable than innuendo. Facts are by far my first preference, however, sometimes important items can be in delicate developmental stages, and disclosure can scupper any meaningful progress. I sincerely hope some meaningful progress will be announced, and soon.
Unreasonable delay breeds concerns and speculation. This is quite natural and councils/committees should always be mindful of this. Many in our GSD breed are feeling very concerned about the future progress of our breed and whether the euphoria and hope for our breeds future, built up very significantly the early part of last year, is turning once again into another GSD "progressive" damp squib.
Progressive ideas and opportunities can be lost by delay and indecision. There have been numerous ideas lost and missed opportunities in our breed over the years, with many of them lost by simply failing to get on with them. Good ideas and obvious opportunities don't just develop on their own while we wait. They need decisions and implementation in a reasonable and appropriate manner and timescale, otherwise concern and then apathy creeps in, and finally despondency. Something which has been largely responsible for the demise of our GSD Show scene.
Unreasonable delay breeds concerns and speculation. This is quite natural and councils/committees should always be mindful of this. Many in our GSD breed are feeling very concerned about the future progress of our breed and whether the euphoria and hope for our breeds future, built up very significantly the early part of last year, is turning once again into another GSD "progressive" damp squib.
Progressive ideas and opportunities can be lost by delay and indecision. There have been numerous ideas lost and missed opportunities in our breed over the years, with many of them lost by simply failing to get on with them. Good ideas and obvious opportunities don't just develop on their own while we wait. They need decisions and implementation in a reasonable and appropriate manner and timescale, otherwise concern and then apathy creeps in, and finally despondency. Something which has been largely responsible for the demise of our GSD Show scene.
by jaymesie51 on 06 February 2011 - 01:02
nothing ever changes why the f--k cant we as a breed stop all the i am better than u ***** and all pull the same way it is so f--king obvious that we all want the same thing so lets stop all the bull **** fu--ing egos and start to pull in the same direction and then maybe who knows we might start to get somewhere because all we ever get is words we need more than words so if you really do want this breed to go forward then put in more than words lets see some ******* action **** the apethy it only exists if u let it its action this breed needs words are easy action makes it count.
jim h
jim h
by Mackenzie on 06 February 2011 - 06:02
I am sorry that this thread has deteriorated and drifted away from it’s topic. This has happened because of me asking a question based on something that was written by Sue regarding her opinions. The question itself was a legitimate question and the point was raised by Abby Normal on this thread before my request for the same answer. Unfortunately, I disagreed with Sue on one point when she said “I do not necessarily see it as a major priority at this time. There are so many more things that we need first that we do not currently have access to" and, this is what has led to her attack on me in particular when I asked for more details. If not me then who does have the right to raise a question?
For the breed to move forward it must be able to withstand healthy debate. This can only be achieved by keeping everyone informed so that the breed can move forward as one and without the personal vendetta’s seen here all too frequently. David is right in something he has said “sometimes important items can be in delicate developmental stages, and disclosure can scupper any meaningful progress“. When everyone is aware of what is being negotiated they will be more understanding at these times, silence in the way that this thread has developed only breeds mistrust.
I hope that this thread can return to it’s original meaningful debate in a polite and respectful manner and that readers will contribute more. The breed and the contributors deserve that.
Mackenzie
For the breed to move forward it must be able to withstand healthy debate. This can only be achieved by keeping everyone informed so that the breed can move forward as one and without the personal vendetta’s seen here all too frequently. David is right in something he has said “sometimes important items can be in delicate developmental stages, and disclosure can scupper any meaningful progress“. When everyone is aware of what is being negotiated they will be more understanding at these times, silence in the way that this thread has developed only breeds mistrust.
I hope that this thread can return to it’s original meaningful debate in a polite and respectful manner and that readers will contribute more. The breed and the contributors deserve that.
Mackenzie
by Videx on 06 February 2011 - 08:02
Words can be very powerful and are generally a precursor to action. It is usual for objectives or ideas to be raised with words in order for action on them to then take place. I have rarely seen spontaneous action, I have frequently seen spontaneous reaction.
I have provided plenty of words and action in my time, frequently causing interesting reactions, many born out of ignorance and intolerance. Unfortunately far too many people interpret action in our breed as simply sitting on a committee or putting up and taking down rings, booking judges etc. Whilst these are vital functions for running Shows, progress for our breed here in the UK will only stem from observation, ideas, knowledge and experience being formulated into proposals either written or spoken, and then discussed, agreed and implemented. A reasonable flow through this process is essential to achieve success, unnecessary delays or avoidance usually results in little or no progress or something far less than ideal and considerable frustration and apathy, as well as large portions of despondency, much of which is predictable.
It always fascinates me how many of those that say or write the least and clearly adopt a policy of not rocking the boat and not putting their heads above the parapet, and are usually devoid of any progressive ideas, are usually amongst the most popular people in our breed. I simply do not consider popularity of any meaningful importance, which I have always thought I make very obvious.
I have always considered stupidity and ignorance amongst the worst two faults in the human race. Especially when stupidity is expressed through ignorance.
I am publicising items important for the meaningful progress of our breeds future, while unfortunately making the point that these have been raised and largely ignored over several years. A legitimate point in my opinion, one which will obviously create various reactions, which I fully anticipated.
What I am still left wondering is "will there be any meaningful progress made on introducing a DNA Parentage Test for GSD breed here in the UK, through the GSD Breed Survey or more generally, or will it become just another case of the more important progressive seeds (by comparison for example, of the KC Good Citizens Bronze Award) falling on stony ground?" If the latter, I suppose I will be raising them again at sometime in the future, much to the same reactions.
I have provided plenty of words and action in my time, frequently causing interesting reactions, many born out of ignorance and intolerance. Unfortunately far too many people interpret action in our breed as simply sitting on a committee or putting up and taking down rings, booking judges etc. Whilst these are vital functions for running Shows, progress for our breed here in the UK will only stem from observation, ideas, knowledge and experience being formulated into proposals either written or spoken, and then discussed, agreed and implemented. A reasonable flow through this process is essential to achieve success, unnecessary delays or avoidance usually results in little or no progress or something far less than ideal and considerable frustration and apathy, as well as large portions of despondency, much of which is predictable.
It always fascinates me how many of those that say or write the least and clearly adopt a policy of not rocking the boat and not putting their heads above the parapet, and are usually devoid of any progressive ideas, are usually amongst the most popular people in our breed. I simply do not consider popularity of any meaningful importance, which I have always thought I make very obvious.
I have always considered stupidity and ignorance amongst the worst two faults in the human race. Especially when stupidity is expressed through ignorance.
I am publicising items important for the meaningful progress of our breeds future, while unfortunately making the point that these have been raised and largely ignored over several years. A legitimate point in my opinion, one which will obviously create various reactions, which I fully anticipated.
What I am still left wondering is "will there be any meaningful progress made on introducing a DNA Parentage Test for GSD breed here in the UK, through the GSD Breed Survey or more generally, or will it become just another case of the more important progressive seeds (by comparison for example, of the KC Good Citizens Bronze Award) falling on stony ground?" If the latter, I suppose I will be raising them again at sometime in the future, much to the same reactions.
by missbeeb on 06 February 2011 - 09:02
FWIW, I fully agree that DNA testing should be mandatory... ideally implemented by our KC, however, we all know that our KC does little that is beneficial for dogdom, so that is a non starter.
As to committee members... where would we be without them? Personally, I have no wish to ever serve on another committee, 10 years was enough for me and there is some truth in the saying that, "a camel was a horse designed by a committee". However, there needs (IMO) to be less criticism and more doing; you don't have to be on any committee to be useful... offer your services... whether it's collecting the shit bags, stewarding or collating information... whatever! Offer your services! It always seems to be the same handful of peeps "doing", they have my admiration... I may not know or even like some of them, but that's life and they are "doing" for free for the benefit of all.
I'm not too fussed about popularity myself David... "other people don't keep you" was drummed into me at an early age. I would, however, rather get along with peeps, given a choice!
I have faith in "our new venture" and our unstinting support is paramount.
You have had some realy good ideas David (most of which I would support) and you probably (?) have the means to implement some of them but you seriously need a diplomatic PA to redo your proposals. You must have learned by now, that one catches more with honey than with shit????
I would say to ALL... be united in our efforts, even if you don't agree with everything or don't like who's doing what... that is not important, the future of our Breed is bigger than any one personality, as adults we aught to be able to see that the end justifies the means!
by Videx on 06 February 2011 - 10:02
Tact and diplomacy have never been my strong points - however it is so depressing when proposals, even well prepared and fundamentally important proposals are pushed to one side because of relatively unimportant window dressing issues such as tact and diplomacy. I sometimes wonder if focus is placed onto such unimportant issues it is really just one of the many ways of saying "no", or of saying "no because you proposed it!, either way it would be pathetic, and it is our breed that falls behind because of it.
I greatly value much of the work our committees do, however no one and no committee is above justifiable and constructive criticism, and they certainly shouldn't take umbrage over being reminded or questioned.
I greatly value much of the work our committees do, however no one and no committee is above justifiable and constructive criticism, and they certainly shouldn't take umbrage over being reminded or questioned.
by missbeeb on 06 February 2011 - 11:02
Well, you are right David... I think it's because it's you... I don't know that, it's just my opinion and again, I agree, it's a poor reason for ignoring a good proposal, if that's what happens.
"Constructive" criticism (of committees) is rather too frequent an occurrence for anyone to shrug off lightly... that's not a dig at anyone... just a fact and also depressing for those on the receiving end.
I would strongly recommend that you put your proposals in writing to the "correct body" and offer your assistance in implementing them.
by Videx on 06 February 2011 - 19:02
Of course I am prepared to assist further. The first requirement is to thoroughly explore with the SV/WUSV the option of using their scheme in its entirety for GSD in the UK. This would alleviate the administration requirements to the minimum possible. Failing which, to then look at alternative acceptable options, maintaining compatibility with the SV Scheme as fundamental.
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