HD in Genetics - Page 5

 I have to be say that I am curious as to why Gustav and Daryl have only two dogs that were OFA'd ? What do you think that is ? I am just curious, as I do not believe that HD is the single most important criteria for a search dog.

I would probably want to know about hunt drive and things like that. I know dogs that do not have OFA hips that will work circles around OFA dogs. So, the drive to do the work would be first on my list.

Hunt drive would be my number one concern for a SAR dog, but I've seen plenty of "supposed" SAR dogs that don't come close to having any!  I'd even bet half the breeders in the ads have no clue what that means.

Gustav can you show me ped on: Aly Vordinsteinwald
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

 Many on this thread are assuming that H D is 100% genetic but that is simply not true. Other factors come into play i.e. exercise, jumping, overweight, supplementing with calcium etc. Dr Malcolm Willis, the geneticist who has researched H D in this breed in particular, write books on it and commenced the hip-scoring of German Shepherds in the U K in conjunction with the Kennel Club stated that this condition is not 100% genetic, in fact went down to around 50% for some sires. Some males have 'strong' genes for good hips and can correct but this can not be relied on.
I would say, look for a breeding kennel with consistant good results over many breedings. Follow their advice on rearing your youngster.
Otherwise, buy a youngster with already graded hips as others have suggested. I would also like to mention that slight hip displasia may not be such a handicap even for S & R, even Border Collies, the most commonly used breed for S& R does not always have perfect hips.

I don't think I noticed anyone assuming that.  In fact, everyone seems to be pointing out that it is not completely genetic.   Current science has held the belief that it is a complex multifactoral trait, involving multiple genes and it's expression further affected by environment.

Again HD is a polygenetic problem with irregular pattern which is genetically predisposed and environmentally induced/enhanced.
 In  another words.  Short of physical injury or lack of minimal necessary amounts of building materials   you can not induce environmentally bad hips. For example you can starve wolf pup and feed him a "saw dust" and he will not get bad hips if he has absolute minimum of building materials necessary. The proof of this is that if you can have a litter of pups in exactly same environment and poor conditions same will have good and some bad hips depending on their particular genetic differences. Proper conditions will hide potentially slightly bad hips and bad conditions will expose it. I believe that proper nutrition is important because at best only  miniscule percentage of dogs have genetically perfect hips .  
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
 

I guess I believe that environment can influence only genetically even ever so slightly imperfect hips but can not influence genetically perfect hips. (That is as long as minimum necessary conditions are maintained).
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

Darylehret,
Wow, you are like the super high drive researcher! Every thread I have looked at you are there with all kinds of data. Thanks for putting in the hours and sharing.

Gustav,
I to would like to see a pedigree for Aly. I tried searching the web but could not find anything useful.

Here are some of the dogs people have listed thru other posts: Any others??
Norbo Ben Ju......Cordon An Sat......Titus z PS.....Aly Vordinsteinwald

Any suggestions on strong females??
One female I found that looks appealing to my novice eye is Varna z PS (Currently at Sapphire Shepherds). What do you think?

C

Again, the hip ranking via OFA, FCI etc is not a perfect system.  And so the grocery list. 

The question was posed why I like a hip xray done from 6 months to 1 year best.  At this time frame, the hip has a probability of aboout 91% of staying the same. 

Unfortunately, not everyone reads a hip xray the same, even in the veterinary profession.  

There are many good hip producers and the interesting part of researching is that you will also find the crosses that work best for you for your purpose.

SAR dogs,  I would prefer to see dogs in pedigrees with high degrees in tracking hopefully the FH.   I also do not like to every see SAR dogs bred with aggression.  They are difficult to have in groups to work. 

The german shepherd is an excellent mutlifunctional dog.  The bloodhound is still the best at scent and an interesting dog to work.  Let me know, I have two young ones now!

Good luck! 
Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com

Responding to the bloodlines,

Cordon An Sat is my favorite dog of all times - lots of great defense.  Not so good for the SAR dog.
Norbo Ben Ju son I have Hill ze Slovanskeho Domu also produces very good defense, so for the SAR dog, one has to cross in the absolutely clear headed easier female.
Titus I have my differences with.  So many liked him because he looked like a big black bear.  I had Titus here for 2 years before we had to put him down with age.  He did produce a clear headed dog. 

For SAR, I would have to ask why one would go for a dog that produces defense.  It has nothing to do with the job.  Tracking is the job.  I have also found that high level trackers do not have to have high prey.  We do train bloodhounds for cadaver dogs.  It's all about their want to hunt and a genetic ability with scent discrimination. 

I used to use Olymp Policia as a demonstration dog for police departments on tracking, it was such a natural for him.  No toy, no food just wanted the praise at the end.  Same way we train bloodhounds. 

good luck!
Nancy