Why not buy from USA - Page 5

Wow, how depressing.  You have proved my german spouse correct when he said "you would have sold that dog by now if you were in Germany and not here."   Now he gets to say "I told you so"

I give up too, VomRuiz. 

A shitter by any other name is still a shitter, regardless of where it is born.  

Even buying a dog bred in the United States does not automatically mean the buyer is able to go see the litter in person, given the great distances and relatively few breeders of top quality European working line GSDs in this country.  I suppose to the OP, it's far better to buy a shitter bred locally than a quality dog sight unseen regardless of country of origin.  

That's certainly his perogative, as I originally said - to each his own!  hahahha.

ah yes top quality sight unseen.

* 5,5 - 4........................................... in V12 Irk von Arminius
* 5 - 5............................................. in V Clodo vom Badsee
* 4,5 - 5,4......................................... in V13 Birke Filsperle
* 5 - 5............................................. in V Leika von der Gipserzunft
* 4 - 5............................................. in VA1 Uran vom Wildsteiger Land
* 5 - 4,3........................................... in 2X VA1 Quando von Arminius
* 3 - 4............................................. in V Pütz von Bad-Boll
* 5 - 5,4........................................... in V Palme vom Wildsteiger Land



I suppose a dog with this line breeding would be considered top quality, coming over Nero Hirschel on the top side and Gorbi bad Boll on the bottom side.  (for someone wanting show lines).   Dog even had respectable bite work.  Dog purchased as a stud dog.    Several breedings later and no pups reproductive specialist says dogs sperm count is so low as to be nearly non-existent.  Dog is to serious to put into general pet home so now you are stuck with a dog that you can't use for the purpose for which you originally purchased him, he came directly from germany so it is to expensive to send him back and play dog roulette again.    

No thanks, after watching a friend go through this experience I will never buy a "top quality" dog sight unseen.  To me he got stuck with a shitter, a dog that is useless for the purpose you got it for.

If I want to buy a  working line dog  I will drive up to washington and get one from susanne eviston.  I know she breeds quality pups and stands behind them.  I can also go to Jean Schrader and pick out a very nice pup.

If I wanted a show line dog I would go to Deb Sherman in S. Oregon, the Gustins in W. Oregon, or Heidi Thies in Boise area.  There are others but those come to mind relatively close to me and quickly.

Everyone that I know that buys a dog to be used  for stud from Europe (or anywhere else, including the United States, for that matter) requires a number of tests be performed prior to any money or dogs changing hands, including back xrays, hip & elbow xrays, blood tests and guess what - a current sperm count.  Just seems like common sense to me.  That said, if I were in the market for a "top level adult dog", I would never buy  based on the word of the seller or based on videos alone.   I'm sorry your friend didn't take the necessary steps to insure the dog was not sterile, it's an expensive lesson for sure.

I will agree Sue & von Ruiz.....
A "shitter is a shitter"...no matter when the "shit" comes from....
Many of us have had good & bad experiences from here and there.......lessons learned in life.

Yeah, sueinc,  I think they realize that by now.  However, point is just because a dog is imported from someone you trust doesn't necessarily make it better than one you could have gotten here, in north america.  Everyone has their preference for where to shop but it just annoys the heck out of me to hear people blindly say that nothing good can come from north america. 

Both Canada and the US have some breeders that put out some very nice dogs and I am not talking the AKC/CKC specialty dogs either, but rather nice german style show lines and working line dogs. 

I notice too, that a lot of kennels here in the US boast on their websites "imported parents."   hmmmm
 
The puppies here are just too damn expensive! I have all the above mentioned expectations from ANY breeder I would go to...Here or elsewhere... If I am going to end up with a turd, at least I didn't spend a small fortune. I do agree gsdsch3v,  about  a pedigree MAKING the dog, I  just think I have better odds of getting what I am looking for, especially when the parents are producing consistantly..... so far my dogs have not disappointed me. Some day they might, two are still young. If they do, well... I knew they were a crap shot, and they are each special to me,  they all have different personalities, but I won't cry foul on the breeder. As inexperienced as I am I could turn them into shitters LOL

Ahhh well hope everyone had a nice Valentine's Day
Stacy

I agree, gsdsch3v, there are good working line and show line breeders both in the United States and in Europe.  My current schutzhund dog was whelped in  the United States, bred in Germany.  The difference I see is in Germany and Europe it is easier to breed to top BSP and WUSV participants (just as one example), and especially there is a greater depth of quality working blood lines.   I  would never limit myself to any country when searching for a working prospect, nor would I limit myself to only purchasing a pup or a dog I could physically put my hands on before buying.  Though it is true, I am very lucky in that I have someone I trust implicilty, who is 100% honest, who has forgotten more than I could ever know,  when it comes to picking a dog/pup from here or abroad for me.

Sue
And so it is the same over here For if this Guy where my dOgs come from does not have what you want he will find out for you throughout Belgium, Holland and Germany, and the most important thing of all he is 100% genuine and you know he will do all he can to help
But for me i look no further than him for a breeder as experinced as he is  Izzys breeder,and  to let me have my choice of Sire to put to his Female is something not normally done i think
But i did my home work very thoroughly and if nothing else with dogs, i do have a knack for selecting Male to go to Female for i have done it with horses and Racing pigeons  to great effect,
As my old tutor used to say a Stockman is born a Stockman and i think to be one you must have a great affinity with animals or Birds, and me, i get on better with animals and can see more than i do most of my own kind this forum proves that
But only time will prove that with Dogs for it was my first ever time
Steve1

You guys are tripping i did not mean you have to keep a dog penned to work it i hate those who do do that. The point was that you should be able to judge a dogs temperment yourself or at least have it done by a very trusty person. I love the post that a gsd regestered with AKC cant be titled no matter what handler had him is stupid. There are trainers who could put a sch title on a poddle. Thank you sch3v for seconding me