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by Rexy on 24 January 2010 - 18:01
GSDFLORIDA,
What you have described in your boy is "exactly" the same as my boy used to be who is also a German showline dog. I know what you are seeing which doesn't look like a fear reaction as my boy didn't appear to fear anything either. Even as a puppy, my boy didn't run away from anything, didn't fear thunder storms, infact, I could never find anything that would cause him a flight reaction. He is not gun shy and as a young dog if I was welding, I had to tie him up to keep him away from the welder to protect his eyes. He seemed a strong stable dog.
He was a bit sharp around strangers and other dogs but when the aggression first really surfaced was his 12 month visit to the vets. When the vet entered the room, he took a wild aggressive lunge at the vet who ran out of the room and refused to see him without a muzzle which was fair enough. We muzzled him and calmed him down enough for the examination and took the incident as he didn't like that vet???.
The aggressive behaviour escalated over the next couple of months to the point that he would bristle up and want to bite everyone and everything outside of his family pack as you have described with your boy's behaviour. He is obedience was very good without stranger or other dog distractions no handler aggression, food aggression or aggressions towards our other dog or people he knew. Any outsiders he wanted to "get em" was the basic behaviour.
We hired a Schutzhund/police K9 trainer to have a look at him who he barked like crazy at when he entered our yard and bounced around on the end of the leash with the appearance of wanting to nail the trainer as we expected he would. The trainer asked us to muzzle him and he would re enter the yard. When the trainer re-entered, he barked and carried on like before and trainer told us to let the leash go. He ran to the trainer and lunged at him..........the trainer grabbed the leash, gave him a couple of good corrections and ran around the yard with him in a heel. He command him to drop which he did and the trainer stroked him calmly and settled him and the dog began to lick the trainers hand through the muzzle.
We then went out into the street and the first person we saw, the dog fired up again and the trainer placed him in a block commanding "leave it" and lifted his front legs off the ground. When he ran out of air and looked at the trainer, he let him down slowly and praised and petted him. Within half an hour, he completely stopped the lunging and aggression with the trainer handling him. To cut a long story short, it took about 3 months to correct the behaviour exposing him slowly to high traffic areas of people, dogs etc and using blocking corrections if he ignored the "leave it" command. A year and a half later today he is perfectly behaved and trialling well in Schutzhund. I don't allow strangers to pat him or allow strange dogs to play with him, but he is reliable in close proximity and generally ignores them. What I did do that helped the most was walking around shopping centres where people are everywhere in all directions and kept him focused upon me. He basically surrendered to being interested in other people and has never fired up in those situations since.
My suggestion is to hire a good trainer to teach you how to handle and correct that type of behaviour. I still don't know what the behaviour is which is not typical of the usual fear aggression, it's like an extreme civil aggression which also has a fear component of sharpness???. What I do know is the behaviour is not of a particularly well balanced breeding unfortunately .
What you have described in your boy is "exactly" the same as my boy used to be who is also a German showline dog. I know what you are seeing which doesn't look like a fear reaction as my boy didn't appear to fear anything either. Even as a puppy, my boy didn't run away from anything, didn't fear thunder storms, infact, I could never find anything that would cause him a flight reaction. He is not gun shy and as a young dog if I was welding, I had to tie him up to keep him away from the welder to protect his eyes. He seemed a strong stable dog.
He was a bit sharp around strangers and other dogs but when the aggression first really surfaced was his 12 month visit to the vets. When the vet entered the room, he took a wild aggressive lunge at the vet who ran out of the room and refused to see him without a muzzle which was fair enough. We muzzled him and calmed him down enough for the examination and took the incident as he didn't like that vet???.
The aggressive behaviour escalated over the next couple of months to the point that he would bristle up and want to bite everyone and everything outside of his family pack as you have described with your boy's behaviour. He is obedience was very good without stranger or other dog distractions no handler aggression, food aggression or aggressions towards our other dog or people he knew. Any outsiders he wanted to "get em" was the basic behaviour.
We hired a Schutzhund/police K9 trainer to have a look at him who he barked like crazy at when he entered our yard and bounced around on the end of the leash with the appearance of wanting to nail the trainer as we expected he would. The trainer asked us to muzzle him and he would re enter the yard. When the trainer re-entered, he barked and carried on like before and trainer told us to let the leash go. He ran to the trainer and lunged at him..........the trainer grabbed the leash, gave him a couple of good corrections and ran around the yard with him in a heel. He command him to drop which he did and the trainer stroked him calmly and settled him and the dog began to lick the trainers hand through the muzzle.
We then went out into the street and the first person we saw, the dog fired up again and the trainer placed him in a block commanding "leave it" and lifted his front legs off the ground. When he ran out of air and looked at the trainer, he let him down slowly and praised and petted him. Within half an hour, he completely stopped the lunging and aggression with the trainer handling him. To cut a long story short, it took about 3 months to correct the behaviour exposing him slowly to high traffic areas of people, dogs etc and using blocking corrections if he ignored the "leave it" command. A year and a half later today he is perfectly behaved and trialling well in Schutzhund. I don't allow strangers to pat him or allow strange dogs to play with him, but he is reliable in close proximity and generally ignores them. What I did do that helped the most was walking around shopping centres where people are everywhere in all directions and kept him focused upon me. He basically surrendered to being interested in other people and has never fired up in those situations since.
My suggestion is to hire a good trainer to teach you how to handle and correct that type of behaviour. I still don't know what the behaviour is which is not typical of the usual fear aggression, it's like an extreme civil aggression which also has a fear component of sharpness???. What I do know is the behaviour is not of a particularly well balanced breeding unfortunately .
by troublelinx on 24 January 2010 - 20:01
I would also like to point out that you need to have him around dog people who are not scared of him like schutzhund people. The dog has develpoed a defence he knows that he can scare people. When they respond in a fearful manner it makes the problem worse they unknowlingly reward his behavior. The tainer that gsd flordia used showed him that he was not scared and did not reward him the tatic did not work so he stoped. The vet on the other hand rewarded him almost like a agitator would when training a dog to bite.
Robert
Robert
by Nans gsd on 27 January 2010 - 23:01
Rexy, your post is right on. A good trainer is needed in this case to help the handler understand what is going on and assess this situation. GSD Fl and your dog sound exactly like my Tyler when he was younger; however, he is somewhat better now, the situation is not solved and probably will never be. That is why I feel the right person is important in this case for solving this problem. My boys problem in under some control but not solved. But I have had to work really hard and when it gets out of control I have to use the E-collar to remind him that his behavior is unacceptable and he needs to stop it. Of couse the E-collar is not the way I want to go but it has helped in his situation. Nanci
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