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by vk4gsd on 27 December 2012 - 04:12
no man you DID NOT send a bad pm, i was asking you to. there you go again being nice. i don't get it? maybe your just a nice guy. you belive in karma or soemthing right? forget just messing with you, have a wonderful festive season.
cheers man.
cheers man.
by Ibrahim on 27 December 2012 - 04:12
by Elkoorr on 27 December 2012 - 05:12
So aaykay, where did you get your knowledge from? And is it ok with you that the knowlingly falsifying of records equals good record keeping? Yes, we germans were and still are sticklers in keeping records, yet it doesnt mean that what was written down was always correct.
by vk4gsd on 27 December 2012 - 05:12
Are there red herrings ? Of course! You can find red herrings anywhere/ in any country , but blanket statements like that are , well as I said , idiotic. 
.
hans yes this is definately a bit of paper with stuff written on it - the question was how much do you trust that stuff like this is always accurate and correct not if bits of paper with stuff written on them exist.
.hans yes this is definately a bit of paper with stuff written on it - the question was how much do you trust that stuff like this is always accurate and correct not if bits of paper with stuff written on them exist.
by Prager on 27 December 2012 - 06:12
Elkoor I did not mean to call you idiotic. When I reread my statement it may seems to be so even so I meant to and I thought I did, called blanket statements idiotic and not you.
Hans
Hans
by Prager on 27 December 2012 - 06:12
VK4GSD I have posted this " paper with stuff written ion it" as a example of what was written by Aakay and "LMAO" at by K. G.
As far as trusting it - I do. Czech is a small country and the dog breeders of consequence knew each other thus if someone would fake papers that would mean such breeder's end. It just would not be worth it. Especially in the gov program which was under tremendous public scrutiny.
Also this "paper with stuff written on it" was done by Czechoslovakian military and I know some of the people who have generated these documents personally and I for what ever it's worth, trust them. On top of it they developed one of the most complex selective breeding program I have ever seen. That was done in order to develop superior dogs for Czechoslovakian border patrol - z Pohranicni straze. These people have done it with love and passion and they had no reason to cheat. That would be against the purpose of their tedious effort . Why would they do that? There would be no benefit but only detriment to their effort.
As far as "always accurate and correct" nothing is always accurate and correct. Mistakes are made - of course. However why would someone intentionally cheat on circumference of the wrist, length of the scull ,... and so on is beyond me.
These were statistical data which by them selves do not mean much . They meant much only from cumulated statistical data point of view.
To say that, yes attempts on cheating were done and are done these days too , but today such cheating is really stupid because it is always discovered by DNA - sooner or later. I am personally aware of such rare cases of cheating and we and Jiri are always pointing such cheaters and trying to destroy them . They are detrimental to the breed but almost always they are discovered by DNA.
Are these cheaters only in former Eastern block? Of course not.
Thus I would say that you can trust the papers from former" Eastern block" as much as to any other papers from other countries. Pre DNA times are too far and DNA of today makes cheating almost impossible and penalties are tremendous and not worth it to any sane and even minimally educated breeder.
Prager Hans
P.S. I would encourage anybody who can prove cheating on Czech or other country's dog papers to contact me. I will not let it stand and will run with it in order to punish such breeder.
That is what you all should do. But please do not make blanket statements about E. Block and so on. Unless you want to sound really silly.
Hans
As far as trusting it - I do. Czech is a small country and the dog breeders of consequence knew each other thus if someone would fake papers that would mean such breeder's end. It just would not be worth it. Especially in the gov program which was under tremendous public scrutiny.
Also this "paper with stuff written on it" was done by Czechoslovakian military and I know some of the people who have generated these documents personally and I for what ever it's worth, trust them. On top of it they developed one of the most complex selective breeding program I have ever seen. That was done in order to develop superior dogs for Czechoslovakian border patrol - z Pohranicni straze. These people have done it with love and passion and they had no reason to cheat. That would be against the purpose of their tedious effort . Why would they do that? There would be no benefit but only detriment to their effort.
As far as "always accurate and correct" nothing is always accurate and correct. Mistakes are made - of course. However why would someone intentionally cheat on circumference of the wrist, length of the scull ,... and so on is beyond me.
These were statistical data which by them selves do not mean much . They meant much only from cumulated statistical data point of view.
To say that, yes attempts on cheating were done and are done these days too , but today such cheating is really stupid because it is always discovered by DNA - sooner or later. I am personally aware of such rare cases of cheating and we and Jiri are always pointing such cheaters and trying to destroy them . They are detrimental to the breed but almost always they are discovered by DNA.
Are these cheaters only in former Eastern block? Of course not.
Thus I would say that you can trust the papers from former" Eastern block" as much as to any other papers from other countries. Pre DNA times are too far and DNA of today makes cheating almost impossible and penalties are tremendous and not worth it to any sane and even minimally educated breeder.
Prager Hans
P.S. I would encourage anybody who can prove cheating on Czech or other country's dog papers to contact me. I will not let it stand and will run with it in order to punish such breeder.
That is what you all should do. But please do not make blanket statements about E. Block and so on. Unless you want to sound really silly.
Hans
by Ibrahim on 27 December 2012 - 06:12
Are these cheaters only in former Eastern block? Of course not.
Thus I would say that you can trust the papers from former" Eastern block" as much as to any other papers from other countries.
Exactly
Thus I would say that you can trust the papers from former" Eastern block" as much as to any other papers from other countries.
Exactly
by vk4gsd on 27 December 2012 - 07:12
Hans do you DNA all yr dogs and supply results to customers??
just asking.
just asking.
by Prager on 27 December 2012 - 15:12
Just asking? LOL
by Jenni78 on 27 December 2012 - 15:12
"Hanging papers" has happened since the beginning of pedigreed dogs. You want fake papers, take a look at some APBT pedigrees. Inaccurate pedigrees, I would guess, happen proportionally equally.
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