China Imports - Page 4

Susie,
you hit the nail on the head - the small time breeder basicly HAS to use these big timers in order to sell their pups. If it would be predictible how many pups would be in a litter - ah, my litter only would be 3, these I could keep for myself at any time. But there are on average 5 pups - so I will have to sell them, and believe me, you know that, you will not make money with selling 3 pups.
As I stated before, I have nothing against making money, but looking at the apropiate numbers is what is making me sick.
But this is not about me, it is wabout what Jantie writes & promotes. He does promote some valid points, and many, many small time breeders, which by the way are in the mayority, are getting more & more sick about being the "Kanonenfutter und Beiwerk" to fill the shows for always the same group of peopel. That's why the numbers of attendes at shows are declining, many just do what is absolutely nessecery to obtain a ranking.
And again, at what point is the line crossed, according to the Statues of the SV it says :
II.§ 7(5)a) Peopel that are EXCLUDED from beeing members of the SV are : Gewerbsmäßige Hundehändler - und vermittler. (rough translation: excluded are professional dogbreeders and brokers).
And again, do explain to me at what point is it a buiseness venture ?
I can tell you what was tried with me, the authoritys tried to put the sticker on me beeing a professional breeder because I bred 1-2 litters a year ! It took me over 1.5 years and a court date to establish why I am a Hobby breeder. It is common practise here in Germany that a breeder is considered a professional breeder by the courts if the following is present :
1. Has to have at least 3 or more breeding females.
2. Has to have a vast turn a round of different animals
3. Has to breed 3 or more litters a year
4. Has to make a lot advertisement
These are the requirement for the courts to determen if one breeder is a Hobby guy or not. But I guess this is not the requirement in the SV, is it ?
That is why Jantie is so upset, he believes that, because it became such a big money maschine, the mentioned healthproblems are there. Because it revolves around a limited Genepool, as too many are breeding to a declining number of studs..... it is a carussel, and it will be hard to get out of it. Jantie sees the main problem that only a small number "high profile breeders " will try to protect their income, and therefore "dictate" the genepool. That is why he points out where the money goes, at least where he thinks it goes. And he states that, last time I checked, that is his right to do so.
Ulli

Dear Oskar ( funny, isn´t it - we are Germans and talk English - but that´s okay because this is an international forum and it´s an international problem ),

in my very personal opinion the SV should remove II.§7(5)a) because it´s not used in the same manner for ALL members and as soon as a human being has the possibility to earn money he/she will do...that´s like the attempt to prohibit professional soccer in the German soccer league...

BUT

-these "big players" should (must ) pay taxes like everyone else - and this needs to get controlled by the German State ( I´m no expert, I don´t know how to handle this problem yet)

-a judge - neither Schutzhund nor Conformation judge - should be allowed to judge dogs out of his own kennel or even out of a male/female he bred or owns/co owns; otherwise he may be biased

-there should be the law that every member of SV HAS TO x-ray hips and elbows in the age of 12 months and HAS TO send the results to SV, otherwise lack of membership

-a top stud dog shouldn´t be allowed to have more than 20 studs ( international..) the year

There are a lot more things coming in my mind and I know that a human, as soon as there are rules, will try to bypass (correct word?) these rules, but this would be a beginning.

The other problem I see are the "small" German Shepherd lover all around the world, who never will have the knowledge and the discipline to get on top - no matter if working dog or conformation dog - but still believe that a well known kennel name guarants a top dog.
People try to BUY success but both of us know that this is almost impossible. These people will ALWAYS be "Kanonenfutter", because they are not able or not willing to train like they would have to do. These people will always be disappointed, no matter WHO is leading the SV...

Kind regards,
Susie

Hallo Susie,

I can reason with much that you say - even thought, many of the " high profile breeders " do not train their animals themselfs, we all know that too. How couid they, they often have an amount of animals that plain simply makes that impossible.
Still, my question  remains unanswered : When is breeding a professional venue or when is breeding a hobby ?
I find your attempt to say the paragraph II.§7 should be removed a bit funny. So instead of sticking with, or better yet to enforce the existing rules, we just remove them - what an easy way out, and on top it would mean we encourage these doings.
Your aproach regarding the mandatory x- rays, I found rather interesting. Whilst, yet again, we know how the game goes. Dogs vanish from the top of the earth, are suddenly sold to pet peopel, who are not interested in x-rays........(we all know the outs, dont we).Your idear is certainly tempting, but hardly to enforce.
Anyways, really nice talking to you. 
Best regards
Ulli
David,
I know you think that Jantie is indeed a moron from a diffrent planet, give it a rest. He is expressing his opinion, and at that, he is stating many facts. As I said before, take some of his numbers, research what he claims, and mybe, just maybe you too will see what he is actually trying to achieve. Besides that, if you dont agree, thats fine too, Jantie will not disrespekt you for having your own opinion. Nor will I, as I believe you contributet quite a bit to the breed.
Best Regards
Ulli

Dear Oskar,

I tend to say " remove this paragraph " because in reality it´s worthless. As soon as SV interdicted more than 10 breedings the year ( an awful lot) new kennel names came up immediately, preferential called " TEAM " and others.

That´s the point: These TEAMS are a machinery, they have a head, and they have a lot of paid helpers. Let them pay taxes like every other company, the thing it is. I´m not silly, I know it´s difficult, but that´s maybe the only way.

When is breeding a professional venue or when is breeding a hobby ?

1. Has to have at least 3 or more breeding females.
2. Has to have a vast turn a round of different animals
3. Has to breed 3 or more litters a year
4. Has to make a lot advertisement

That´s a very simple explanation. I know that most of the German Shepherd breeder never in their life earn money, but this could be handled about income taxes ( too much expenses, no income tax like other companies and so on ).

I know that there will be people who find escapes, i know it´s not easy, but nobody wants to start because a lot of people have their advantage right now ( and that´s not only the breeders, it´s the trainers, the handlers, the brokers, the judges the kennel helpers, the decoys, the vets, and and and...)

It´s difficult, I´m no lawyer,  I have got the flu and can´t think well, my beloved German Shepherd is bored to death
and both of us know that there are far more problems...

Have a nice day - I think we would like each other
Susie

Hey Susie,
hope your flue will get better in no time ! Here is the cure :
1 part hot water
2 part whisky
1 tablespone Honey
1/2 pressed lemon
This will have 2 effects :
1. You will sleep quite well !
2. Your flue will be gone in no time !
Your explanations about when it is considered to be an professional breeding venue, is what it is considered by german authoritys. But not by the SV, You are right, at the point  when they hit that margin, their sons, daughters, or wife establish a kennel name. How dare we are, to think it has anything to do with the original kennel name  - no, these are individuals doing their own thing. By the way, do you have a quater for me, so I can talk to the parkingmeter for half an hour ? It really becomes boring at a  point.
Hope you get well soon.
Best Regards
Ulli
 

Dear Oskar,

thanks a lot for this fantastic sounding recipe, but it´s too late for whisky, I´m on antibiotics for days now.

Isn´t it amazing - almost everybody is whining, but nobody has an opinion or an idea for a betterment....nobody wants to jump in this thread...no change desirabled ???

Let´s close this thread, it´s useless - no brainstorming required !

Best regards,
Susie

Yeah, a pity that people wet their pants when one starts talking business!

Chinese Sieger VA-results:

ＶＡ1 1001 Furbo Degli Achei，CSZ8002354
父犬：Quenn vom Loeher Weg，SZ2119344
母犬：Fenia degli Achei，CSZ8001668

ＶＡ2 1095 Dux de Intercanina，CSZ8002203
父犬：Zamp vom Thermodos，SZ2101021
母犬：Watschenka de Intercanina，SZ2164163

ＶＡ3 1039 Dax de Intercanina，CSZ8002188
父犬：Zamp vom Thermodos，SZ2101021
母犬：Watschenka de Intercanina，SZ2164163

ＶＡ4 1038 Xill aus dem Haus Zygadto，CSZ8002131
父犬：Vegas du haut Mansard，SZ2164725
母犬：Bama von der Grafenburg (Ost)，SZ2117018

ＶＡ5 1026 Gerry v. Grafenbrunn，CSZ8002320
父犬：Tyson vom Koettersbusch，SZ2175542
母犬：Lana v. Bellissimo (H)，SZ2181059

ＶＡ6 1091 Hasko von WeiSheng，CSZ47772
父犬：Giovanni vom Kapellenberg (INT)，CSZ8000937
母犬：Hasta von Weiyuan，CSZ0005581

ＶＡ7 1018 Cesso von Dossel，CSZ82001
父犬：Sam von der Grafenburg，CSZ8001724
母犬：Hanna von Dossel，CSZ89305

ＶＡ8 1098 Yumo vom Finkenschlag，CSZ8002359
父犬：Tyson vom Koettersbusch，sz2175542
母犬：Dalida vom Finkenschlag，sz2164080

ＶＡ9 1080 Zoltan vom Panonian Haus，CSZ8001970
父犬：Amigo v. Panoniansee，SZ9139907
母犬：Honda von Ropal，JR727959

ＶＡ10 1019 Xano von der Freiheit Westerholt，CSZ8002255
父犬：Kwantum vom Klostermoor，SZ2172355
母犬：Pitty von der Freiheit Westerholt，CSZ8002237

ＶＡ11 1079 Merlin vom Osterberger-Land，CSZ8002160
父犬：Nero vom Noebachtal，SZ2080775
母犬：Mirka vom Osterberger-Land，SZ2046417

ＶＡ12 1065 Pirlo von der Jahnh?he，CSZ8002137
父犬：Vegas du haut Mansard，SZ2164725
母犬：Vanny vom Haus Zieglmayer，SZ2159791

ＶＡ13 1013 Kratmosens Baroni，CSZ8002266
父犬：Zamp vom Thermodos，SZ2101021
母犬：Kratmosens Quina，DKK05883/2005

Wow,

You've really spilled the beans now. I see your point. Just look at the VA list. They are all from one kennel and all owned and sold by one person. That person is really raking it in aren't they. Hey did you notice all the dogs were handled by German handlers too. Yep, check it out. It's really a corrupt system isn't it. And you forgot to mention that they are just importing dogs from Germany and breeding them together. Just look at the mothers of those top dogs. The're all German imports. Nothing being bred from a Chinese kennel. Those Chinese aren't even breeding their own dogs.  It's all corrupt and it's the SV's fault. Wow, thanks for spilling the beans with all this insider information.