Please....anyone....I'd really appreciate feedback.... - Page 4

VKFGSD, not to start a war here, but Tina bred her Shilohs because of what she saw happening to the American GSD. You've been around long enough to know what happened during the 60's when the German and American dogs went their separate ways, and the American dogs began to develop weak nerves, bad hips and overstreched, overangulated bodies. I'd say well over 60% of her breeders are former GSD breeders/owners. There's got to be a reason for that. And the reason is they didn't like what they were seeing happen to the American dogs, and didn't care for the German dog's harder temperments and banana backs.  And not all Shiloh's are longcoats, BTW. The stock coat is perfectly acceptable.

Bondo's mom, I know some of the people here have been hard on you, but please listen to what they are saying. They do know what they're talking about. This site is a gold mine of information, if you can force yourself to ignore the stupid threads, and the mean, petty stuff. 

I used to ride competitively, and it was just as bad there. But the fact of life is if you are REALLY serious about breeding, you need to title your dogs in order for people to take you seriously. Yes, there IS a market for pets, but, as people have explained, even top champion dogs produce lots of pets in their litters. No one breeds 'just' to produce pets. You need to have a goal in mind, and that goal should be to produce better dogs than what you started out with.

Bondos Mom,

Sorry you got your feelings hurt.  Too bad you don't appreciate the good advice you received.  Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

Geeeez....bondosmom. There is enough material out there about the GSD you can read on your own and learn from, and then come here and ask questions to clarify. No wonder you loose every little credibility you ever had. You are insulting to every one who sat down and did their homework, who seeked a mentor and spent hours over hours on a training field. You are insulting to the breed, and to the name GSD. Can you switch to Goldens, maybe???????

Bondos mom, I almost posted on this subject the other day, before the bashing began.  You were given some sound advice from a few people when the thread was started and I was surprised when you weren't jumped on immediately.  I was proud of the way it was handled initially.  BTW KCzaja, it was you I was going to compliment for being so "tactful" .  Anyway, I haven't been posting on this board for a number of reasons, none of which really matter here.  Many experienced and knowledgable people have left and most would have pounded you right off the bat.  Some are the best at what they do and don't take lightly to anyone coming in and destroying what they've worked many years to overcome.  Yes, we all need to start somewhere, be it breeding, sport, choosing a puppy, choosing "just a pet", etc.  You were right to come here and ask but when you were given advice you didn't want to hear, you've become just as much of a basher.  The people trying to steer you in the right direction would be the same ones cheering you on when you've accomplished the smallest goals with your dogs.  Instead of taking the advice, you insist you want to breed "only pets".  Evidently, you do have quite a bit to learn, it's no enough to get a puppy, fall in love and start breeding before you've found the proper education as to what, exactly you ARE breeding.  Maybe the info about your personal life is not correct, so what??  Let it go and take the advice without addressing the BS.

There are many people in the sport and you can't lump them all into one ball of nasty.  I've met some real jerks and also some of the nicest people in the world.  I've been to clubs that have been nothing but helpful and some I'd not want to return to.  I'm no expert, my dog is not titled (not yet anyway), and I have no plans to breed.  I enjoy it because my dog enjoys it, doesn't matter to me if he ever gets his title, I'll love him no matter what.

Stop, listen, learn.  Yes, maybe you haven't been coddled by some but why would you expect to be when so many have put so many years and dollars into breeding the best quality dogs for sport or anything else.  Not even all of the best bred dogs produce whole litters of ideal outcome, so why would you think your "pets" would produce anything better?  You'll do what you're going to do, but I think you should sift through and take the good advice that maybe wasn't given in the kindest of ways.  You do have lots to learn and will do yourself and your dogs a disservice if you don't take the advice you're given.

Good luck in whatever you decide,

you seem to be a real dildo.just do it how ever you want because you will anyways.you didnt get the pat on the back you were looking for here.quit crying about it.
this may seem now to be the place for this crap but you should be glad you did not post this a couple years ago if you cant take this little bit of critisism.
GO AWAY or SHUT UP AND LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


btw  my first post on this forum got some prett harsh answers,fortunately i am a quick learner and realized people love this breed and dont want to see it trashed by people who deliberately breed recessive faults.

Bondo's Mom, I got my first GSD in 1962 when I was 13 long before you could climb on the internet and find information easily. I went to the library and used bookstores and scoured them for books and magazines and articles that had any mention of German Shepherds. I took the bus across town to the one dog show my town had and spent the day for when Shepherds were done ( always at 8 am) you could still talk to the exhibitors in Shepherds and other breeds as well and there was so much to learn. I called vets in my area to see if they knew anybody who bred GSD and I wheedled my Dad into driving me to meet some of them. Thru them I found out about magazines devoted soley to the the GSD and saved my allowance and bought them. Over the years I have bought rare and out of print books and magazines dating back to the turn of the century (1900) so I could learn about the history of the breed and the dogs that were behind the dogs that were behind my dogs. At that one dog show a year I met a 17 yr old who shared my passion and had a driving license and for a number of years off we would go to shows and trials to WATCH, LEARN and LISTEN. In other words at 13 and 17 we had more sense than you seem to be showing on this board.
Since that time I have done just about everything one can in the Shepherd world. I am proud to say I have had several H.O.T. bred dogs in a number of venues. H.O.T. = handler owner trained and HOT bred means bred by the handler which is to me the highest acclaim you can get. Look at Deleta Jones who went to the Worlds 2 years ago with her HOT bred male Ello. I have trained , shown and titled my own dogs in breed ( conformation), herding, obedience and schutzhund and trained my current dog to be my service dog.  Since 1963 I have bred exactly 4 litters (basically for my own replacement dogs) but I have never stopped trying to learn or going to shows, trials not just to compete but to watch, talk to others in the breed and see what dogs are out there and what they are producing.
It is a great hobby but when one makes it a business all to often it is the animals that suffer. Do you know how HARD it is to find PROPER homes for a GSD. These are dogs with intelligence, energy and enthusiasm. If that mind and energy is not kept engaged ( hello that's what all the work and titles are about) it will be engaged in something the owner does not want and that is how dogs end up in shelters. Just type in GSD Rescue into google and you will get a flavor for the sheer numbers there are. There are even rescues that specialize in coats ( often listed in shelters as collie/GSD crosses ). I have rescued more GSDs than I have ever bred including a 9yr old long coat who had his muzzle and legs tied with piano wire and was thrown into the backyard to die when his family left. ( He lived out his life with me) You may have the luxury of staying home every day and loving on your dogs. Few Americans do. Most are two income families and the family dog is relegated to the back yard, the garage or the laundry room for 8 to 12 hours a day. GSDs will get destructive plus if not correctly socialized they can get fearful, aggressive, overprotective and a hoard of other things. Are you able , willing and ready to take back your pups at a year, 18 months, 3 yrs when these problems become unmanageable?

There is an old breeders axiom ( and we can learn much from old breeders if we will just listen) - Do not breed unless you have that ability ( time, energy, money, space) to keep every single puppy if you can not find a PROPER home for it.

This is one reason I have bred so infrequently because I do not have that ability especially now that I am older. I did have a large litter that I ended up with 4 bitches out of. One of them was sold at 18 months because I thought I had found the right place for her and because she and a litter sister had a death feud going. ( oh yes BTW the fact that your sisters are getting along together now does not mean they always will and the worst combination in GSD is two bitches who hate each other because they will literally fight to the death no matter how nice they are with people or other dogs. ) The bitch I sold to a loving family with kids - turns out within 6 months when they thought I no longer would check or care had been moved over to the husbands manufacturing plant which had been the plan all along it seems for her to be a "guard" dog. Before I could get her back ( and there are very few legal ways to go since they now had ownership. I was seriously considering the self help method - ie stealing her back) she got out and the plant was near a major highway and she was killed by a car. That was many decades ago and I still feel guilty for her death and for the life she deserved and did not get.

Penny is right. You can not believe what "wonderful" people will do for your dogs.  The people who do the money in the door the dog out - I do not know how they live with thesmselves.

These are some of the reasons people have been so tough on you. They did not perceive either knowledge or caring about the breed. Was VKFGSD blunt and harsh - yes. But have you thought that maybe that was a way of trying to burst your self created delusion that the world is wonderful and I love on my dogs and so will everyone else and I don't need to know anything and all will be well.

For the breed, for each and every individual German Shepherd please stop being defensive. Though it may not have been sugar coated and polite you have been given good advice by numerous posters on this and other threads. Stop, Listen and Learn.

VKFGSD offered you a way to learn and offered to help you. The plan suggested did not say never breed your dogs, it said find out about your dogs and the breed first and then make the decision about what's right for them AND the breed. Note I did not say you. Sometimes sharpness is necessary to get through someone's wall whether it be defensive, delusional or protective. The sharpness in these posts was directed at the good of the breed not at you. Try looking at it in that light and try seriously considering what has been suggested.

TIG,

Nicely said!