Schutzhund Training makes dogs more aggresive? - Page 4

My Czech female, Xena, is very serious. She is about 70% defense and 30% prey. She does have nice full girps though. I think most people do not want to deal with a competition female coming into season. So they just title them quickly and then use them for breeding. I must say though, that a great working female is a joy to watch.  

Schutzhund is sport..........the dog should have "full grips" , it should be crazy for the sleeve.........and bite the sleeve only..(except tugs, balls, kongs, etc. of course).

A gsd that cannot be controlled, that becomes agressive, or in any other way becomes dangerous through Shutzhund training either has a personality fault or is a result of faulty training.

Police, military guard or civil defence trained dogs are different......

Shutzhund training can be the first part of true working dogs, and very often is. But there is a fine line between the two. In our club, people who train "professional dogs" (police, military or civil dogs) are not allowed in our club.......the liability is to high. If someone goes through to SchH3 and then decides to take his/her dog further the will have to move on to another club.

Sitas Mom.. how many of the people in your club actually wan to get to the top.. like nationals?
Just curious.

plenty wan to go get to the top.

our training director was on the national team many years ago......and has a dog that might get him there again very soon........

we still understand that Shutzhund is a sport........

So Sitasmom there are no serious dogs in your club?  Every dog is a prey monster and only worked in prey?  What club do you train with?  In my experience prey will only carry a dog so far in the sport of Schutzhund.  If you are only interested in trialing on your "home field" at your own club trials this may be fine.  But every serious competitor in the sport of SchH works their dogs in both prey and defense.  A truly good sport dog will eventually view the helper as a bad guy and act accordingly when on the training field. 

Now, are all schutzhund dogs "man eaters" of course not.  The ideal SchH dog should be calm, confident, self assured and a little aloof is ok too.  The dog should be comfortable around strangers and new environments and should never show inappropriate aggression.  The ideal SchH dog should be able to turn it on and off and have a good temperament. 

Good SchH training can make an aggressive  or sharp dog more under control and a better family companion.  It also teaches the dog "self control" and consequences for improper behavior.  It often teaches novice handlers how to handle and properly control their aggressive dogs.  It gives many dogs a positive outlet for excess energy and builds a stronger bond between handler and dog. 

The key to training dogs for SchH protection work is to tailor the training to the individual dog.  A good decoy will recognize the strengths and weaknesses of the dog very quickly.  A sharp or slightly insecure aggressive dog  starting out in SchH may need to be worked more in prey at first till the dog learns it is a "game."  A softer dog or a high prey drive dog may need to be pushed a little more. 

Please don't take offense, I"m just curious.  Is Sita the first dog that you have done SchH with?   I don't necessarily disagree with your views; but I think they may be limited based on your experience with your own dog and your SchH club.    Technically you are correct in an ideal setting.  But every dog is different and to think civil" or aggressive dogs can't or don't do SchH is a little naive. 

Jim

Jim I agree with you but wanted to add a bit

Just because a dog tends to be civil in their bitework does not mean that they are unstable, they just tend to be more toward the defense drive side of things.  On the flipside just becase a dog is highly prey driven does not mean that it will be less likly to bite.  Different dogs will have different thresholds to where they react and that has more to do with nerves and to an extent proper training.  The Ideal schutzhund dog will be BALANCED in its drives.  Very few dogs are born with perfectly balanced drives,  A good helper will read the dog and work it appropiatly.  I do believe that some dogs are worked too soon in defense for a variety of reasons which can lead to problems.  The Ideal schutzhund dog will learn to channel its drives..

I have had 2 females that were more defense orientated, one of which was the best dog I ever had with children.  That dog had nerves of steel,  She was a fun dog,  My young dog is very simular to that.

Just my 0.02

Jeff

We have two different meanings for the word "civil".

As I said before "we do not train professional dogs, dogs for police, military or CIVIL defence dogs".  The liability is to high for our club.

We have plenty of dogs with nerves of steel that bite like there's no tomorrow. We do not have nasty dogs that will be disqualified......

We go to great length to make sure that our dogs know that the hleper is the person with whom to play tug of war with,.......our dogs go crazy when they see scratch pants and biting sleeves. their ears go up, their tails start wagging, the bark like crazy, the pull a the leash, they just cannot wait to get a good bit in........they go absolutely crazy when its finally their turn to do protection......

 

The point is a trained dog is better than one not trained.
Has nothing to do with a dogs aggressive nature or lack of.
Its putting the cart before the horse.
Apples and oranges.

I agree that this is one of the bests posts in a long time. There is a lot of very good info here. A good balance of both prey and defense are definitely ideal for a top sport dog, not just prey monsters. A dog with a good amount of defense does not make a dog only suitable for PP or police work. Balance as was stated above along with correct training, is what makes top top level sport dogs. Also, eagerness to get on the field, a wagging tail and perked ears do not mean that a dog is only working in Prey drive. For me, right now, I have a hobby schutzhund dog. No defense, all prey, sleeve monster. He is my learning dog and has been the best teacher for me, along with my very experienced trainer. My next sport dog will be more balanced. Theresa

"Schutzhund Training makes dogs more aggresive? "

It absolutely DOES NOT. Who told you that?