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by Psycht on 03 August 2009 - 03:08
Sorry to hear about the trial. Anyone who has been is dogs long enough has had one of these types of days. Just a gentle comment - Sita did not "f*ck up". Her handler was stressed at changes and Sita felt it. Placing blame on the dog will do nothing other than preventing both of you from moving on.
When I have a trial/training day that goes all to hell, I take a break to decompress, and than I evaluate where *I* lapsed in either my training or handling. From there I step back and go back to the drawing board.
Good luck! I am sure you will be successful next time :-)
by Changer on 03 August 2009 - 06:08
Reiki passed his BH when he broke the long down. Under Raino Flugge. I heard a gasp from the crowd when the other handler called his dog, turned around and there were two black shepherds running to the other handler. Called my dog who came instantly and no dog fight and excellent recalls on both dogs. It is possible to pass the BH and not pass the long down.
Shade
by yellowrose of Texas on 03 August 2009 - 07:08
I thought the dog should not pass but he barely did ...he passed...because he did the two most points correctly but slow and he got points off for other things but passed by very little.....
His owner was over 60 and had never ever done this before..His wife sat in the tent and did not look until he was finished...this was their first adventure but Angel had coached him as well as this dog could be coached and first time for this older gentleman was a plus.
Every dog , every handler and every field and condition is a factor...be ready for any and all...practice in the most unfamiliar conditions weeks before the trial....I remember being told to practice near geese, chickens and cows or any pasture of any 4 legged animals ,, beasts or fowl long before the trial for distraction purpose...dogs should not let any of these be a determent to their attention on you and your face and what needs to be done...
We will be rooting you on and hoping the best.....you can do it....we all have been there...not the dogs fault or yours...YOU ARE A TEAM REMEMBER THAT A TEAM
by SitasMom on 03 August 2009 - 09:08
dogs can be just a guilty of f*cking up as humans............they are not stupid, they are not machines. that being said, she will understand the more distraction (of any type) is her key to pay more attention............
as far as being consistant or not, well I was VERY consistant. I was consistantly not striving for perfection. That has changed. Every time Sita is even an 1/8 of an inch off, she will know it..............harsh, maybe........she will learn very quickly..........and with good behavior she gets praise..........
by TessJ10 on 03 August 2009 - 13:08
Changer, Slamdunc, and Adler Stein Kennels gave terrific advice. Training, even Strive-for-Perfection training should never be "a living hell" for any dog.
As to passing when breaking the long down. The purpose of the BH is primarily a temperment evaluation, which is why I've heard judges in their critique say they had passed dogs whose obedience wasn't exactly spot on, but the temperment was solid. In Changer's example: "there were two black shepherds running to the other handler. Called my dog who came instantly and no dog fight and excellent recalls on both dogs." Yes, there was the break on the long down, but the temperment was solid - No dog fight plus her dog came to her instantly when she called it. The judge saw the no fighting and the instant obedience to the Recall and elected to pass at the BH level. I understand that decision. There was good temperment and good control, so at the BH level, the judge saw what was necessary to see in order to pass on to the road test.
by RLHAR on 03 August 2009 - 14:08
A dog can not f** up. They're not capable of that kind of reasoning or deliberate disobedience. If your dog doesn't do something or isn't proofed in something then you need to look at yourself and ask where did *you* f** up. Maybe it was the stress you felt, maybe it was nerves, maybe it was simply not being comfortable enough yourself that your attitude crossed to your dog and she did not stay with you.
Also pissing on the field that's a handler error. You should always relieve your dog before you go out on the field, whether it be training or trial. If your dog takes forever to evacuate then give yourself the time to walk her before going out there, whatever it takes there is no excuse for a dog to relieve themselves on the field unless they are a little puppy.
I also like what YellowRose said, you and Sita are a team and when you're out there but you are her leader and she is looking to you to set the tempo of your work day.
If things went to hell in a handbasket that is on your shoulders, not hers.
by Psycht on 03 August 2009 - 14:08
dogs can be just a guilty of f*cking up as humans............they are not stupid, they are not machines. that being said, she will understand the more distraction (of any type) is her key to pay more attention............I never said that dogs cannot make mistakes nor that they were stupid. I guess my point is that if you are having to train her now to understand to focus on you through any distraction, she probably wasn't clear on that before so I personally would attribute that to a failure on my part to thoroughly train under distractions.
as far as being consistant or not, well I was VERY consistant. I was consistantly not striving for perfection. That has changed. Every time Sita is even an 1/8 of an inch off, she will know it..............harsh, maybe........she will learn very quickly..........and with good behavior she gets praise..........
As to being consistent in consistently not striving for perfection, I am not sure if that is a facetious comment or if you truly believe that is consistent training. As to training with the perfect routine in mind, nothing wrong with that. That is what most people do. You just have to train up to perfection and not expect the dog to get there overnight.
It is hard to read the intent behind emails so perhaps that is where some of us are coming from in our responses. It just seems that you are laying this failure all on the dog and are getting harsh with her when perhaps what is needed is a step back and going back to some foundational work.
Just my final 2 cents :-) Good luck with her!
by Slamdunc on 03 August 2009 - 15:08
Changer,
You are correct in that regard. I should clarify my statement and thanks for pointing that out. You need a total of 42 (70%) points to pass the BH out of 60 points. The long down is 10 points, so breaking the long down and not returning drops you to a possible 50 points to start. So, every other exercise would have to be nearly perfect to pass to get 42 out of 50 points, most BH's are not that perfect, but some are awesome. I could see the dog breaking the long down during the recall, and if you were able to call the dog back as you did you probably received partial points. From looking at the dog in your avatar I'm sure the rest of your routine was flawless.
Tess,
I agree the BH is about temperament primarily and most judges will allow a less than perfect dog in the OB to pass. The judges have to look for a certain amount of control in the OB phase as this is in the rules. Most judges don't score the BH as hard as they would a SchH 3 dog in a trial. More is expected from dogs that are going for SchH titles, than just for a BH.
Sitasmom,
Sometimes we get a "wake up" call in training and realize that our dogs and us are not as perfect as we think or expect them to be. If training and titling a dog was easy everybody would do it. It takes a lot of work and dedication to train a dog from a pup to a SchH 3 level. Most dogs or handlers never achieve it for one reason or another. Perhaps the dog isn't cut out for it, perhaps the handler doesn't put the time in. Perhaps the two together aren't a good team, maybe the handler can't handle the dog or the dog can't take the handler's training methods.
You will be a better handler after this if you can look at your dog and yourself objectively. You need to be fair to your dog. Being fair is being consistent and rewarding at the proper time and correcting at the appropriate time. Every correction needs to be followed immediately by praise and reward as soon as the dog is correct. I train using a ratio of praise to correction of 5 to 1 for hard dogs and roughly 10 to 1 for soft dogs. Of course this different for each dog. Here is the idea: if you correct the dog for something as soon as the dog is correct we praise / reward at a much higher level than the correction. You must praise and reward after every correction the instant the dog is correct. The dog must be corrected instantly when it makes a mistake. If you wait 3 or 4 seconds you have missed the opportunity to correct and your timing is off. For example my dog understands the sit command, If I say sit the dog has 1 1/2 seconds to sit, if not I correct. I don't repeat the command and ask sit again. With in 2 seconds I am making the dog sit, then I praise. This is fair, he knows what to do and I am consistent with my commands, rewards and consequences. There are no grey areas. I think this is what you have been missing.
Remember, this is a hobby and a sport for you. It should be fun for you and the dog and you need to make it fun. As Sue mentioned, I also never work my dog when I'm in a bad mood or having a bad day. Sometimes, I can't help it because we're at work together, but he is rarely the one that gets me annoyed. If I take my dog out and I'm in a bad mood I will just throw a toy and not train. So at least the dog has fun.
Many people will tell you that you often screw up your first dog that you do SchH with. I made mistakes with my first dog (and still do) but I learned from it. Fortunately for me he was hard and high drive enough to overcome my shortcomings. I looked at my training one day and said "I'm not being fair to this dog
by TessJ10 on 03 August 2009 - 16:08
Or even as hard as a SchH 1 ! (LOL) But that's ok. As it says in the rules, the BH is NOT considered a title. It is the bare minimum standard to allow a dog to even try for a title.
by SitasMom on 03 August 2009 - 16:08
He wold get a funny look in his eye and take off - he would always come back after a few hours and look guilty as can be. I work with obedience every day, I took him to a specialist, I did everything possible. I put electirc wire on the fence and he would start crying about 10 before the fence, endure the shock and escape anyway. I put 10' chain on his collar with a piece of 2x4 attached to the chain so when he jumped the fence to excape he would get caught (without choaking) and I could correct him.
After repeated corrections (50 or so) he knew exactly what would happen if he tried to escape, he still got that look in his eye and tried to escape.......One day while working with him, he jumped the fence and go hit by a car and died.
He was not a yard dog, he lived in the house. Some dogs f*ck up!
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When Sita broke her long down, she came to me and quietly sat at basic position......the judge told me to leash her. Peeing on the field is an 8 point deduction. Between the two it was 18 points......
I would have barely squeeked past had she not peed on the field......so said the judge.
I was training consistantly, I wasn't very worried about our turns. I thought she was close enough, we focused more on other items of the pattern......
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