workingline best new stud

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by Fenris on 01 January 2011 - 16:01

Agreed. Which is why after that last warning I just deleted the posts that violated the TOS instead of closing the thread.

by shepherdpal on 02 January 2011 - 00:01

Molly and others, I am curious as to how you eveluate a pup to see if they would be a good service dog. What does the evaluator look for in a pup? I have some degenerating discs in my back and have taught my 20 month GSD to do many service tasks like picking up things that I drop and, retrieving and carrying things. He learns very quickly, butis a bit too reactive,( startles and flies off the handle a bit to easily,) Although he is improving, I am told he does not have that "bomb proof temperament needed to pass the public access test.

by darylehret on 02 January 2011 - 01:01

Molly doesn't evaluate them, a service dog trainer does - every litter at 7 weeks. The nature of the disability and the disabled's handling experience is certainly important. Mostly, any doorknob would do; higher thresholds, less aggression. I would select a more compliant temperament in any purpose of dog, so that's a given.

by eichenluft on 02 January 2011 - 02:01

I don't personally call a working service dog a "doorknob" as they do perform a very valuable service, and they do certainly WORK. The training is complex and isn't done overnight. The puppies are evaluated in general - puppy evaluations done at 7 weeks happen to be done by a friend of mine who is a service dog trainer - also an obedience trainer and someone familiar with working dogs' temperament and drives and "thresholds". She normally does single out a pup or two that she likes best for service work, since that is what she does for part of her living (she also trains and uses dogs for her own program at a hospital - canine therapy and rehabilitation assistance). She looks for puppies with enough drive to be easily trainable, but nothing "extreme" - since that is the type of drive I like myself for schutzhund and other training, that's the normal type of drive my puppies have. She looks for larger size - usually males but females that are not petite in build are ok (they are used for handicapped assistance dogs, so unless they are for children larger in size is better to brace and handle the weight pulling the wheelchair). Puppies evaluated for children with autism should of course be gentle, not mouthy by nature (no more than normal puppy mouthiness) which does eliminate some of my more "bitey" puppies - and those chosen for any sort of service work must have no nerve problems at all, and no "edge" to their temperament.

Most of the time, most of my puppies evaluate just super for service work - but yes the higher drive and more "pushy, bitey" puppies are normally set aside for the experienced and/or more serious schutzhund and SAR homes while the calmer - drive less pushy pups are selected for service or active pet homes where they work out super for whatever their owners decide to do with them, including Schutzhund or SAR.

If you are interested, here is a video of the service dog evaluator, evaluating one litter of puppies at 7 weeks old. The beginning of the video shows some testing by the police officers interested in the males in the litter when they were only 6 weeks old - then the second part is a week later with the normal evaluator. At the end you will see a lot of puppies - two litters, both happened to be born almost the same time, both happened to be quite large litters (8 and 10) The litter being evaluated on the video is the 10 pup litter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbbG_IPEEHY

by darylehret on 02 January 2011 - 02:01

Sounds contradicting, that your puppies normally have "extreme" drives, yet most would be suitable as service dogs with just enough drive to be trainable.

A handicap assistance prospect once described my "oversize" 90 lb. male and 90 lb. female wasn't large enough. Better look to a different breed, I said.

by eichenluft on 02 January 2011 - 02:01

I don't breed for extreme drives, and have never claimed to. I like enough drive to be trainable for any sport or working venue, no extremes, hectic or hyper - because I like dogs that can work and do as well as the handler wants him to, then come home and be a family dog too (same dog). That's what I like, and so that's what I breed for. Normal to high drives, plenty to train as far as the handler wants to go - the dog is capable of going to that level. AND great family dogs. No extremes in either direction. You can see even in these baby puppies there is plenty of drives for working... no extremes necessary IMO.

And, I don't breed oversized dogs. Never, ever. My dogs are large in bone and structure, but never overheight. They have proven to be excellent handicapped service dogs, including for larger-framed people. Just more petite or shorter females would probably not be suitable for this kind of work as they do need to have the strength to brace against their handler's weight, and often pull a wheelchair. So, larger is better for service work (except for children), but no need for oversize.

molly

by darylehret on 02 January 2011 - 02:01

I don't breed for extreme drives, and have never claimed to.

but nothing "extreme" - since that is the type of drive I like myself for schutzhund and other training, that's the normal type of drive my puppies have

Did it ever occur to you that extreme drive doesn't mean hectic or hyper?

by eichenluft on 02 January 2011 - 02:01

Um, yes Daryl - I actually do know all about these things, from experience training and titling many dogs, most of whom are from my own breeding - raising puppies and testing many litters- not reading and talking on the internet like you. I don't like extreme drives that prevent a dog from living a life in a home with a family - and I definately don't like hectic or hyper, which is the main reason I don't like Malinois for myself.

molly

by Love My Canine on 02 January 2011 - 02:01

by eichenluft on 02 January 2011 - 02:01

<sigh> - and Daryl, I know it's difficult for you to actually read entire posts before drawing your skewed conclusions and then spinning things into whatever you feel makes more drama - but here is what I actually said - not cutting the sentance in half like you did -

She looks for puppies with enough drive to be easily trainable, but nothing "extreme" - since that is the type of drive I like myself for schutzhund and other training, that's the normal type of drive my puppies have.

Meaning, to make things a bit clearer to you - the type of drive I like myself is "enough drive to be easily trainable" - not extreme. That sentence was admittedly a bit confused, but reading it more carefully and not chopping it in half would help you understand it better.

molly

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