Antibiotics during Pregnancy.... - Page 3

Mira's, it's likely there was no skull to encase the eyeball.
Vonissk, you can get vetericyn at Tractor Supply. I had a little squabble between two bitches several weeks ago, caused by a brain fart by me. I forgot one was stll up top in a run, a turned another one loose. They had a very brief encounter, cause the loose bitch came to me as soon as I called her. Anyway, the bitch who was in the pen got a nasty rip. With a piece of skin removed and a deep wound below the hole. I figured it wound end up needing a drain. But I flushed the wound immediately with vetericyn, started her on Cephalexin, and kept the wound flushed with vetericyn every couple hours. In two days, you could not even tell she had an injury. I had to pull the scab off one time day after the bite, but there was never any puss draining and no accumulation of fluid in the pouch below the hole. Kept up the ceph for ten days and was nothing to flush with the vetericyn after three days. I never saw a wound like that heal so completely so fast before. Also, the bitch had a minor scrape on her eye lid, so I washed that with the eye formula of vetericyn.
Thank you, Jenni, for posting about this stuff many months ago. I'll never be without it.
Btw, I had a nasty scape from a piece of metal on my arm, washed it with vet. and never another thought about the wound.

Amoxicillin/clavulanic acid (INN) or co-amoxiclav (BAN) is a combination antibiotic consisting of amoxicillin trihydrate, a β-lactam antibiotic, and potassium clavulanate, a β-lactamase inhibitor. This combination results in an antibiotic with an increased spectrum of action and restored efficacy against amoxicillin-resistant bacteria that produce β-lactamase.

Unlike co-trimoxazole, the BAN has not been widely adopted internationally. Trade names include Augmentin (by GlaxoSmithKline),^[1] Clavamox (by Pfizer), and many others.


Electrolysis and electrolyzed water has been around for 200+ years and electrolyzed water is useful as a topical antiseptic, disinfectant and as a cleaning agent.  The limitations of electrolyzed water (aka Vetricyn) include higher cost of production in comparison to performance and short shelf life.  As far as I can find there is no biological advantage between a solution of electrolyzed water versus plain sterile water plus salt plus bleach in the same ratio as the electrolyzed water.  I prefer Betadine and/or chlorhexidine solutions as they are both less expensive and have a longer shelf life than electrolyzed water and are both good and long proven antiseptics. Vetricyn is a good topical antiseptic but most people do not know what it is in fact and do not compare it cost wise to Betadine or clorhexidine which continue to be used as the proven topical antiseptics in wound care.  For those who prefer electrolyzed water we live in the land of the free, just wanted to make sure everyone knows what Vetricyn is and is not.  I also give cephalexin as soon as a bite or wound is discovered and wash with either or both Betadine and chlorhexidine once per day until the wound forms a scab then no more.  The results of the proactive cephalexin is probably responsible for most of my success in treating bite wounds and injuries but a topical antiseptic and daily cleaning of the wound until the wound scabs over and to protect from flies is also a factor I am sure.

Looked up safety and side effects of Clavamox. Interestingly, Pfizer states, "safety use in pregnant or breeding animals has not yet been determined."
Well, well, so now you know that not all veterinarians are up to date on the drugs they prescribe to your beloved animals. It doesn't seem right that the way to learn what's not safe to use is through another person's tragic experience, like Mirasmom had. So, be careful what advice you follow.

The Clavamox labeling is typical as most companies do not want any liability for fetal deaths or defects.  The label for any pesticide, antibiotic, biological protectant, etc. is written to protect the company from liability .. period.  Companies will not put any claims of safety on the label that are not required to sell the product or obtain labeling or approval for use by national, states, or local governments.  I don't use Clavamox or amoxicillin as I prefer to use cephalexin in many cases where either Clavamox or amoxicillin could be used.  Cephalexin is not passes from the mother to the puppies in amounts which will cause harm to nursing puppies so I think it is a better choice also for use in pregnant animals.  However, it would be an over simplification to say that the use of any antibiotic is the only explanation for birth defects which may occur after treating a pregnant animal or human for a disease or infection.  It is widely recognized that diseases and infections treated or untreated can also influence the fetal development and both the disease or infectious agent as well as the toxins released due to the die off of the infectious agents when killed by the antibiotic or the bodies own immune system can influence fetal development.  The use of an antibiotic on pregnant animal is always dangerous but in most cases I attempt to err on the side of saving the mother from injury or death when the decision becomes inescapable. 

Bubba, Pfizer states 'undetermined', not we ain't gonna say one way or the other. Look up side effects of Baytril on puppies. That's not a CYA claim, but proven. And of course nobody is saying that a drug is exclusively responsible for birth defects. As for saving the bitch, when the choice is a drug that has "undetermined" effects during preg, and one that is determined safe, I know which one I'd use.
Sometimes people get lucky and use something unsafe without noticeable side effects, others not so lucky.

I believe cleft palettes are also neural tube defects. I looked back and my dog was treated with clindamycin.

I believe my original response was that I would use cephalexin or nothing so I am not advocating Clavamox or it's active ingredient amoxicillin .. I don't use either because I prefer cephalexin.  As far as safety goes with any antibiotic or biological agent "none are completely safe".  So the choice of an antibiotic is never about picking a safe one or an unsafe one  .. it is which drug or antibiotic is the bigger risk and which is most likely to solve the problem disease or infection.  Within every large population group there exists some individuals highly tolerant of the drug or antibiotic and some highly sensitive.  Most individuals are of "average" tolerance and therefore the drug or antibiotic is allowed to be used so long as the sensitive outliers are not too numerous or in some case they belong to a identifiable subset and can be "labeled off".  Ivermectin use in collies is an example of labeling off a sensitive group. On top of the variable sensitivity of individuals to various drugs and antibiotics comes the usual complication of proper dosing and usage of the drug or antibiotic by the user or prescriber.  Overdosing or prescribing the wrong dosage is also likely to increase the possibility of adverse effects.  It is seldom as simple as "good" or "bad" drugs or antibiotics causing the problems.   When a company knows of a problem linked to their product in humans they will almost always rush to withdraw it or label off the most sensitive users.  The liability in humans is virtually infinite.  In animal cases companies will be much more cavalier as they face limited liability and court challenges.  The labeling of moxidectin injectable for heartworm control in dogs is one such case that comes to mind.  Ambulance chasing lawyers and class action lawsuits are the consumers best friend in protecting consumer's health from dangerous drugs or antibiotics.  Without the threat of huge and unknown financial liabilities arising from class action lawsuits many companies would roll the dice more often but the bad press and the stockholder outrage and bad press over huge losses due to class action lawsuits controls most companies and corporations appetite for risk taking.

A link to neural tube defects in humans .. 1 in every 1000 live births in the USA has a NTD so one of the most common with many contributing factors with diet and folic acid seeming to be involved .. the importance of food and environment on the mother is emphasized .. probably even more important in dogs with a much shorter gestation period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_tube_defect
 

All I can say at the moment is that I use very little medication on myself/family and my dogs,
at the very least I rely on:

  
and the occasional bottle of 
for when they have ingested some sort of foreign object or poisons

High quality human grade cooked or raw food, clean fresh water, and plenty of exercise is the prescription that works best for my dogs.