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by Sunsilver on 15 March 2011 - 12:03
Gawd, you make me sick! Stop the pissing contest already, and rejoice that a REAL GSD was able to get any sort of placing at Crufts, especially under a judge who doesn't show in SV sanctioned shows!
It never would have happened in North America. That dog would have been put to the back of the line, and left there.
And regardless of whether you like Elmo's conformation and work ethic or not, he DOES have his Schutzhund 3, and his koer (KKl1), so he is considered a good representative of his breed by the SV.
It never would have happened in North America. That dog would have been put to the back of the line, and left there.
And regardless of whether you like Elmo's conformation and work ethic or not, he DOES have his Schutzhund 3, and his koer (KKl1), so he is considered a good representative of his breed by the SV.
by Abby Normal on 15 March 2011 - 13:03
You were lucky to count Peter van Oirschot as a friend. Shame you didn’t listen more. What a waste.
by danny killeen on 15 March 2011 - 14:03
I saw it on the television, so I'll accept that I didn't see much, but......
Am I the only one who thinks that dog had a limp? Rear right leg, by my reckoning.
Thoughts?
by Videx on 15 March 2011 - 16:03
Abbey, avoiding the issue again. YOUR knowledge and experience of the GSD is under serious question.
NOT MINE! & NOT ANYBODY ELSE!
Your "slipping & sliding" around the issue CONFIRMS your "novice" knowledge and experience of the GSD.
NOT MINE! & NOT ANYBODY ELSE!
Your "slipping & sliding" around the issue CONFIRMS your "novice" knowledge and experience of the GSD.
by Wildmoor on 15 March 2011 - 20:03
from my short visits to and around the ring there were 4 types being shown
work line, WG showline, extreme English showline and some that didnt ftr any of these with reverse masks etc, a very mixed entry, especialy compared to 2 years ago when I last visited
by Abby Normal on 15 March 2011 - 20:03
Videx
I am prepared to back up what I say, and I could care less what you think of my 'knowledge' and 'experience'. You on the other hand are just blustering and posturing, as per usual offering no counter argument at all.
a) there is a problem with genetic diversity
We got uniformity in genetic make up and that means loss of genetic variation. Hochzucht breeding became a matter of copying the successful formula of successful breeders; doing more of the same. Hochzucht breeding became a one way street.
b) in order to address conformational issues in any breed, breeding strategies other than 'more of the same' need to be employed
The 1990’s to the present day (2002) brought us also a GSD on the upper limit of height and weight. A lot of criticism was of the topline, overstretched bodies, roached backs, sloping backs, unbalanced dogs, steep upper arms in combination with over angulation of the hindquarters and bad fronts, elbows and cow hocks. How can such dogs get excellent places even at a Hauptzuchtschaau? Because typey dogs with roomy gaits seen from the side and handled by experts can impress! Exaggerations are waiting around the corner. Sometimes it is wiser to maintain than to improve.
......In fact we are perhaps excluding the more desired dogs if we consider the whole range of traits which we demand from a GSD suited to live or even survive in our time.
Here we are 9 years later, and we still have issues with toplines, sloping backs, overheight, overangulation & cow hocks from just some of the above, on the admission of the SV. Why? My guess would be that for the last nine years it's been a case of breeding 'more of the same'
Luckily, as I said before, some progressive breeders are not just breeding more of the same.
I am prepared to back up what I say, and I could care less what you think of my 'knowledge' and 'experience'. You on the other hand are just blustering and posturing, as per usual offering no counter argument at all.
a) there is a problem with genetic diversity
We got uniformity in genetic make up and that means loss of genetic variation. Hochzucht breeding became a matter of copying the successful formula of successful breeders; doing more of the same. Hochzucht breeding became a one way street.
b) in order to address conformational issues in any breed, breeding strategies other than 'more of the same' need to be employed
The 1990’s to the present day (2002) brought us also a GSD on the upper limit of height and weight. A lot of criticism was of the topline, overstretched bodies, roached backs, sloping backs, unbalanced dogs, steep upper arms in combination with over angulation of the hindquarters and bad fronts, elbows and cow hocks. How can such dogs get excellent places even at a Hauptzuchtschaau? Because typey dogs with roomy gaits seen from the side and handled by experts can impress! Exaggerations are waiting around the corner. Sometimes it is wiser to maintain than to improve.
......In fact we are perhaps excluding the more desired dogs if we consider the whole range of traits which we demand from a GSD suited to live or even survive in our time.
Here we are 9 years later, and we still have issues with toplines, sloping backs, overheight, overangulation & cow hocks from just some of the above, on the admission of the SV. Why? My guess would be that for the last nine years it's been a case of breeding 'more of the same'
Luckily, as I said before, some progressive breeders are not just breeding more of the same.
by Videx on 16 March 2011 - 00:03
Your clearly rely on selective plagiarism, as do many people lacking knowledge and experience who attempt to disguise the fact. The result however is disjointed and simplistic waffle. This may fool other novice's, but that is where it ends.
What you write can now be put in very clear perspective.
A novice's opinion based on very little personal practical experience or knowledge, consistently relying on your own largely inaccurate and simplistic analogy of what are much more complex issues.
Whatever your personal agenda, you are destined to fail because of your own insignificance within the GSD breed alongside your required anonymity, because this anonymity in itself is your attempt to hide your obvious insignificance in the GSD breed, and this cannot be overcome. For without your anonymity you would be exposed for exactly who you are within the GSD breed. And that would immediately terminate this false authoritative 'persona' within GSD that you are attempting to create.
What you write can now be put in very clear perspective.
A novice's opinion based on very little personal practical experience or knowledge, consistently relying on your own largely inaccurate and simplistic analogy of what are much more complex issues.
Whatever your personal agenda, you are destined to fail because of your own insignificance within the GSD breed alongside your required anonymity, because this anonymity in itself is your attempt to hide your obvious insignificance in the GSD breed, and this cannot be overcome. For without your anonymity you would be exposed for exactly who you are within the GSD breed. And that would immediately terminate this false authoritative 'persona' within GSD that you are attempting to create.
by Abby Normal on 16 March 2011 - 07:03
Nope. Didn't think you had any counter argument. No surprise there.
I rest my case.
I rest my case.
by Videx on 16 March 2011 - 09:03
Your last response clearly illustrates you have been nailed!
My points about you has now been proved - You are a mediocre novice within GSD - I rest my case.
My points about you has now been proved - You are a mediocre novice within GSD - I rest my case.
by Abby Normal on 16 March 2011 - 11:03
Videx you are such a silly billy. Let’s start again and reframe things to allow you to get past the p*ssing contest as Sunsilver so aptly puts it, and put something meaningful into this topic. You continually prove – well, zilch actually.
We'll boil it down and make it really straightforward Videx……..
This could be stated by ‘anyone’. Let's pretend it isn't me (which you really have a problem getting past).
Years ago I attended a lecture with Peter van Oirschot, which was then published. He proposed some very valid opinions about the modern GSD, some of which are quoted above.
I agree with his views. Do you?
There are some excellent ‘SL’ breeders, who are now incorporating some fabulous working line blood into their breeding. True?
As a result of these breedings, their will be a deviation in the typical ‘type’ – True?
We'll boil it down and make it really straightforward Videx……..
This could be stated by ‘anyone’. Let's pretend it isn't me (which you really have a problem getting past).
Years ago I attended a lecture with Peter van Oirschot, which was then published. He proposed some very valid opinions about the modern GSD, some of which are quoted above.
I agree with his views. Do you?
There are some excellent ‘SL’ breeders, who are now incorporating some fabulous working line blood into their breeding. True?
As a result of these breedings, their will be a deviation in the typical ‘type’ – True?
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