Running the blinds in SchH.... question.. - Page 3

I didn't see where the OP question was answered. The answer is that YES a dog would get FULL points if he ran to the blind that he was directed to and just looked in and did not go around. Plain and simple.

I've noticed a few statements by a few posters that I'd like to bring up. The first being a statement by nugget.

"Can be a lot of work for a few points is what some say to me"

True, but if you can win or loose by 1 point are you sure you can afford to give up the blind search points???

The other is by GSDPACK.

"I have sometimes 6 people in blinds, no sleeve, just bark and hold and sometimes they get a bite on whichever person I choose (and the one that has some equipment like sleeve or suit)., Sometimes they get called out."

I agree with putting helpers in different blinds other than just 6 on training days. Unfortunately you brought up the term DUDS. If a helper can stand in the blind without a "sleeve" or other protection and feel safe doing it then to me this dog is a DUD and one I wouldn't own.

So, by this you mean you only own dogs that are out of control during a blind search and subsequent bark and hold?

No OGBS. I take it you've never had a powerful dog that when they come into the blind can make a helper move and flinch enough for the dog to bite? Particlularly when you are using multiple helpers in many blinds as mentioned above. Most clubs don't have more than 1 or 2 hardened helpers that can stand still when a dog comes into the blind and jumps in your face when he does a B&H. 

Being from the Chicago area you may be familar with one of my males.

It may be the different organizations have different rules.  Per the DVG rules "... must purposefully circle the indicated blind, tightly and alertly..."  deductions can be made for lack of tight attentive circling.  To me this indicates, and reinforces what I have heard during judges critiques.  A dog must go around the blind or lose points.

Rick,
There are a lot of powerful dogs. Some bump helpers, and/or get dirty, some don't.
Are they going to bite the helper if he flinches, or, look for a sleeve (or suit if trained for it) to unload on?
Most won't actually bite the helper other than maybe a little peck on the stomach. Of course there are some that will, but, do you think that the presence of the sleeve, that they have been trained to view as a reward, is what is amping them up more than they would be with no sleeve present? Hopefully, it's the helper himself, but, there are a ton of prey monkeys out there. (I'd really like to know your opinion on this)
As for dogs that jump up in to the face of a helper while doing a bark and hold, I'm not really all that impressed. It may look "cool" to some, but, it's really a waste of energy not long after the beginning of the protection phase.
Maybe ask GSDPack a little more of what she is talking about. She, originally, comes from another country where they train their dogs in a similar way, but, a little differently and maybe more realistic way than Schutzhund.
Who is your dog? (You can send it in a pm if you prefer)

VDH/FCI Rules for Schutzhund state:    "The dog must be in front of the handler at all times. At each
blind when the search command is given, the dog must go directly and purposefully to the blind
with intensity and single mindedness and must look into the blind or run around it closely. The
dog must circle the blind within three (3) metres. Just looking in is permitted."

"Hopefully, it's the helper himself, but, there are a ton of prey monkeys out there. (I'd really like to know your opinion on this)"

My opinion on this is you are totally correct. There are a ton of prey monkeys out there. I don't care at all for these type of dogs. So as not to hijack the thread perhaps we could start a new one on real dog vs. sleeve suckers.

ramgsd i was talking about an exercise of a dog to search the blinds. I am not going to describe two years of work with my dogs to get to that point of control on dogs that had muzzle work done on them. I really don't like to brag about my dog's ability to bite a person for real. I am talking about a training method I use to teach the dog a precise work. I should not be explaining that there are other aspects and other things involved before I even reach this point. But hell unless I have a dog that will kill you because he decides to do so after a bark and hold command.. I have a dud! Sure, why not.


oh and ramgsd.. you would like my dogs.

GSDPACK  I just might like your dogs. But not your comment of;

"unless I have a dog that will kill you because he decides to do so after a bark and hold command.. I have a dud! Sure, why not. "

NEVER just because HE decides too. If the bad guy moves or I tell him too,YES. Be it in the blind, a building or the woods at night. With a trial arm, hidden sleeve or bite suit. But that's how I train.

Rick

rams well that is no bark and hold. If my dogs are searching areal searches or buildings they are going for a bite... I dont want them to do any bark and holds. I want them to find that sucker and bite, prefferably upper body.
After my dog's head got shot off becasue he did a leg bite, I do upper body mostly unless there is only leg available!

but that is a little different training. I always fight with my helper over this leg bite "stuborness" on my side. But oh well.. I need to finish box searches with my young dog and I can get on buildings.