Importance of Females in Breeding - Page 3

Studs can produce an unlimited number almost of pups. Females can only produce a couple litters a year.

It is easier to select or find a top producing male than female by the numbers alone.

When I am looking for a female it takes me months....years to find something I like. I can find a male I like in 15 minutes almost. Females are crucial.  

 OGBS, you saw Capri for a couple minutes while she was tied in my side yard shortly after import. Hardly enough exposure to determine I'm doing her a disservice. 

What, pray tell, is Capri going to suffer due to my not titling her further? What are her pups going to suffer? Embarrassment that their momma only has a bachelor's and not a masters or a doctorate? LOL

I'm being funny, but seriously, I think I explained my viewpoint as well as I care to, and have received several pm's from folks who concur, so I'm gonna bow out of this. I am really just not interested in debating what I "should" do with my bitch. Frankly, she's too valuable to me to jeopardize her in any way at all. Those who have her pups haven't complained about her lack of numbers 2 and 3, and have even commented that in their opinions (and some of them are people even you sport people would respect;-)) I should breed her as much as I can while she's young; she has the rest of her life to play around w/sports if I want to further her titles later on. 

Goodnight, all. Speaking of the devil, Capri just ran off w/a huge set of elk lungs and I need to go get them back before she eats enough to explode.

 Something I wanted to add (now that the lungs are safely bagged, lol) is that I think what a dog produces is more important than what the dog is. What I mean is this; of course you have to start out w/the best you can, but once you think you have good quality breeding material, then you breed it. What you get out of that, to me, is more important than what you have in front of you. So, to OGBS's statement about "washouts" I say, how would you know until it was too late anyway? I mean, you can't undo the pups/dogs that exist. I think evaluating them as they age is a far better indication of true quality than to just keep titling the dam. 

Actually, you "owe" your dog more than a Sch title. I see nothing wrong with getting a Sch 1 and then moving on to other things besides pattern training. So much of Schutzhund today is about the handler more than the dog. I wouldn't bother with putting more than a Sch 1 on a female either. If I liked the dog then I would do other things with her that are much more mentally stimulating than Sch. I know of large PDs that will not look at a dog for police work if it has more than a Sch 1. The day Schutzhund became more than a pass fail test was the day that it was no longer a breed worthiness test. Hell......you could probably put a Sch title a Chihuahua.   

Zeigerfarm,
I like your original post and it contains something that I look for. That is 2,3,4 generations of females from same kennel indicating that the best female was probably kept and thus used. If I am buying a puppy sight unseen, I always place greater emphasis on the female's breeding in making my decision. Not saying that is gospel, just that I feel this strong about the female line in the equation.

Ace, When I said by the time she is 3 yrs. old. I would prefer breeding a dog at 2 years old, but anytime after she has reached full growth. I don't speak for anyone other than myself, so to say that is a norm? I don't know. I do think alot of people wait till they get hips OFA'd , or training. etc. I don't think a 5 or 6 is a old dog at all. I just never breed a dog to have a litter , just because she can. 
Hank

(It was 6 months after import, not shortly after import, but, who cares?)

I am not picking on anyone here, I am just trying to keep a good discussion going that, hopefully, will be of help to those who look to breed in the future.
Again, this is just my opinion, but, if you are someone that is building a breeding program, not just finding the one dog you like and breeding him/her, which is what bettering the breed is all about, then it should be of some help to know what you have over time. If your dog was/is a washout (and I am not saying anyone's dog is a washout) and she is reproducing herself in a lot of good ways, it could be that she (or a male for that matter) will also end up producing other eventual washouts. That is what good breeding is all about. Finding out these things, and many others, and trying to improve on them through careful mating that can greatly reduce the negatives and promote the positives.

I said it was a disservice to Capri because I think she is a nice dog based on the limited time I saw her and from what I have been told by you (and, of course, all those wonderful pm's people send you). Further titling her in any discipline sets her apart from so many others that only put a 1 on their dog.
(See Sporty's Chihuahua reference)
Your statement is, again, why few pay attention to the female:
"I think evaluating them as they age is a far better indication of true quality than to just keep titling the dam." 
So, with that in mind why would anyone do anything with any females that are ever produced? Should we just keep following this line of thought by breeders (meaning breeders in general, not anyone in particular), then take it down a notch and say, "Wow this sure is a nice pup from a nice dam. I'm off to the sperm bank to produce more of these nice pups"?
Isn't this how we ended up with the American Showline Shepherd?

  Quote by OGBS "If people are not going to do anything with their females, or, very little, why would you expect someone to pay much attention to them?
If the answer is, "Because I say so", it is a weak answer unless you really have the reputation to back it up.

This is my opinion only, but, I think that it is a disservice to your beautiful dog to not title her further. If you remove the sport aspect from it and the scores, because at the end of the day, who gives a crap about the scores, having a 3 (or a PSA title, or AKC, or whatever) on her proves that she can work/train over time (as in years) and do it while producing pups. It is very valuable to this breed to know that with every female that is being bred. Dogs do wash out and I would want to know that mine didn't if I were breeding her. Otherwise we are left with a bunch of females that we really do not know if they are a much better working dog and working dog producer than what the showline folks have."

"So, with that in mind why would anyone do anything with any females that are ever produced? Should we just keep following this line of thought by breeders (meaning breeders in general, not anyone in particular), then take it down a notch and say, "Wow this sure is a nice pup from a nice dam. I'm off to the sperm bank to produce more of these nice pups"?
Isn't this how we ended up with the American Showline Shepherd?"



GREAT POSTS

This is a very good topic and Jen hate I have to leave my computer. And thanks Jenn for your input
Reggie