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by Bu Inu on 30 April 2010 - 01:04
Well GSDfan, don't be too offended by "AIR". There are idiots everywhere, and obviously AIR has proven that there is at least one on this forum.
And AIR, Thank You for your condescending and outright stupid diatribe that in all actuality, contributed absolutely nothing. Know your audience before posting your misconceptions, and at bare minimum,.... Read AND COMPREHEND the original post before you hit the send button!
And AIR, Thank You for your condescending and outright stupid diatribe that in all actuality, contributed absolutely nothing. Know your audience before posting your misconceptions, and at bare minimum,.... Read AND COMPREHEND the original post before you hit the send button!
by VomMarischal on 30 April 2010 - 01:04
GSDfan, the fight you are describing is just like when one of my young bitches bit my antique white german shepherd boy on the forehead. An abcess certainly did ensue, and oh my, was it a thing of beauty--even though I cleaned it and put him on a course of antibiotics. He had pus leaking thru to the inside of his eyelids and coming out his eye! and more just dribbling down from the outside! Altogether revolting. Took two months to subside. Poor old man. I think your vet may have been thinking "worst case scenario."
by GSDfan on 30 April 2010 - 02:04
Thank you vom Marischal for sharing, that does put what the vet did in a better light to me.
by OGBS on 30 April 2010 - 04:04
Hey Melba (Melissa),
Sorry, I was actually talking to GSDFan (Melanie), but, I can see how my message could be for either of you.
So, now it officially is for both of you!!! (lol)
However, the second part of my message is definitely for GSDFan because she owns the sire of my boy!
--Steve
Sorry, I was actually talking to GSDFan (Melanie), but, I can see how my message could be for either of you.
So, now it officially is for both of you!!! (lol)
However, the second part of my message is definitely for GSDFan because she owns the sire of my boy!
--Steve
by Renofan2 on 30 April 2010 - 11:04
Steve: I would love to see a picture of Vlad. I have an Andy daugher 4.5 months old and she is a blast. Cannot wait until she grows up and the real fun begins!
Cheryl
Cheryl
by hodie on 01 May 2010 - 03:05
I have one question and a comment:
Why, if the handler did not think the injury such a big deal, did the handler take the dog to the vet and once the vet suggested treatment, why not simply refuse the treatment?
And my comment: If the vet would have done little or nothing and an infection ensued, would you not be here raising hell about what a shitty vet it was who did not properly treat the wound? Puncture wounds can be very, very difficult to treat. Even a small puncture wound left improperly cleaned out can fester and end up being a serious injury. I say be conservative and make as certain as possible the wound is not a place for harboring bacteria and infection.
Are there vets who charge a lot of money for things that do not need to be done? Yes, although I have rarely met such vets. Do vets have a "standard of care" and a "duty" to treat a wound to minimize the chance of infection? Yes to both. Puncture wounds often must be explored to know the extent of injury.
While I can certainly understand that the dog was impaired for what was to happen later, I guess my take on it is that I would rather be safe than sorry and make sure that the possibility of an infection minimized and the wound treated vigorously. But then, I don't always assume as so many here do, that all vets are out to screw all of us out of our hard-earned money. In all my years of doing GSD rescue, I cannot count the number of vets who donated time, expertise, medications, treatment etc., for animals whom they knew needed help, but otherwise would not get it.
I would consider thanking the vet for making sure the dog stayed healthy, even with a temporary set back from the treatment.
Why, if the handler did not think the injury such a big deal, did the handler take the dog to the vet and once the vet suggested treatment, why not simply refuse the treatment?
And my comment: If the vet would have done little or nothing and an infection ensued, would you not be here raising hell about what a shitty vet it was who did not properly treat the wound? Puncture wounds can be very, very difficult to treat. Even a small puncture wound left improperly cleaned out can fester and end up being a serious injury. I say be conservative and make as certain as possible the wound is not a place for harboring bacteria and infection.
Are there vets who charge a lot of money for things that do not need to be done? Yes, although I have rarely met such vets. Do vets have a "standard of care" and a "duty" to treat a wound to minimize the chance of infection? Yes to both. Puncture wounds often must be explored to know the extent of injury.
While I can certainly understand that the dog was impaired for what was to happen later, I guess my take on it is that I would rather be safe than sorry and make sure that the possibility of an infection minimized and the wound treated vigorously. But then, I don't always assume as so many here do, that all vets are out to screw all of us out of our hard-earned money. In all my years of doing GSD rescue, I cannot count the number of vets who donated time, expertise, medications, treatment etc., for animals whom they knew needed help, but otherwise would not get it.
I would consider thanking the vet for making sure the dog stayed healthy, even with a temporary set back from the treatment.
by Goose on 01 May 2010 - 14:05
Hmm...I have never heard anyone complain about too much work being done for free! 
Although I understand that the dog is in training, he would have been out of training a lot longer had the wound become infected. So I have to second the opinion that I think the vet did the right thing.
Having some experiences with injuries in different species (no not a vet tech but have close ties to vets) it is not always obvious how bad a bite is or will be.
Having said that, sure, many injuries heal up just fine.
So I think the vet did well.
Although I understand that the dog is in training, he would have been out of training a lot longer had the wound become infected. So I have to second the opinion that I think the vet did the right thing.
Having some experiences with injuries in different species (no not a vet tech but have close ties to vets) it is not always obvious how bad a bite is or will be.
Having said that, sure, many injuries heal up just fine.
So I think the vet did well.
by gsdlvr2 on 01 May 2010 - 19:05
IMO what the vet did was highly inappropriate. If the puncture wounds occurred that day there would not be time for an infection to develop. Bacteria may have been introduced but no time for it to do anything yet. Anesthesia? Are you joking? Clip around the wound, take a good look at it, irrigate it and send handler home with antibiotic. No reason for a drain - again, if the bite happened that day no time for things to progress to the extent of needing a drain.
I would have refused that treatment. I don't understand why the handler went along with it. I'd be furious at that vet. Can you post a picture of the incision?
I would have refused that treatment. I don't understand why the handler went along with it. I'd be furious at that vet. Can you post a picture of the incision?
by Bu Inu on 01 May 2010 - 22:05
Perhaps I can clear up a few questions and misconceptions about this incident.
First, this was an almost unavoidable accident in that the handler and dog that got bit were coming out of the kennel building door right as the other dog came around the corner of the building, right where the door is. Each dog was briefly startled by the other when the door flung open, and both dogs made an quick, and rather uncommitted bite at each other. I was there, 20ft away, and this was not a dog fight or even solid bites on either dog for that matter, (one dog got nipped on the neck with no injury and the dog with the injury was bitten on the front leg, and that was more of a nip than a "bite"). Unfortunately, sometimes accidents do happen regardless of how many preventative measures you try to take.
Secondly, the Training Director...that would be me... looked at this very minor puncture wound, cleaned it....(yes we are trained in what would be considered advanced first aid for dogs due to the nature of police work in our urban environment) and we simply called the Vet for antibiotics. The senior Vet that runs the office and does all of the care and treatment for our unit was not available and another (new vet that had just recently started her career) wanted to see the dog. No problem with that.
Third, The handler who's dog had the wound is relatively new (2 years and not famliar with this kid of thing), and was informed by the Vet that she wanted to anesthetize the dog to have a" better look at it". (BTW- this is one of the most social dogs we have and has never been a threat or cause of any fear with the vetrinary staff in the 7 or 8 times that I accompanied this team to the vet). On this day, I could not break training with the other teams to go along with them to the vet. This particular vet's idea of a better look, involved cutting open the area of what in her own words, "appeared pretty minor". She made this comment both before and after she cut open the area.
I would never doubt the amount and degree of training in veterinary skills that this young lady has, but when compared to my 18+ years as a handler and training director, but I have probably seen more dog bite related injuries and PD-K9 training injuries than I could shake a stick at with the tens of thousands of hours of seminars, basic training courses, in-service training, etc. Trust me, had I thought for a second that the injury was the least bit serious, I would have sent the handler to the vet and I would have went with him, calling the vet while enroute.
Hopefully this will help clear things up a bit. Gsdfan was only looking for opinions since in all her years of training, she too thought that what this new vet did was "overkill". What's done is done, and the dog is doing fine and was back in his training the next day. I should have thought quick enough to get a picture of what both gsdfan and myself had actually observed, since it undoubtedly would have removed all questions about how minor this injury really was.
Lesson learned here.... if our regular seniour staff vet is unavailable... i will have to accompany the team next time.
First, this was an almost unavoidable accident in that the handler and dog that got bit were coming out of the kennel building door right as the other dog came around the corner of the building, right where the door is. Each dog was briefly startled by the other when the door flung open, and both dogs made an quick, and rather uncommitted bite at each other. I was there, 20ft away, and this was not a dog fight or even solid bites on either dog for that matter, (one dog got nipped on the neck with no injury and the dog with the injury was bitten on the front leg, and that was more of a nip than a "bite"). Unfortunately, sometimes accidents do happen regardless of how many preventative measures you try to take.
Secondly, the Training Director...that would be me... looked at this very minor puncture wound, cleaned it....(yes we are trained in what would be considered advanced first aid for dogs due to the nature of police work in our urban environment) and we simply called the Vet for antibiotics. The senior Vet that runs the office and does all of the care and treatment for our unit was not available and another (new vet that had just recently started her career) wanted to see the dog. No problem with that.
Third, The handler who's dog had the wound is relatively new (2 years and not famliar with this kid of thing), and was informed by the Vet that she wanted to anesthetize the dog to have a" better look at it". (BTW- this is one of the most social dogs we have and has never been a threat or cause of any fear with the vetrinary staff in the 7 or 8 times that I accompanied this team to the vet). On this day, I could not break training with the other teams to go along with them to the vet. This particular vet's idea of a better look, involved cutting open the area of what in her own words, "appeared pretty minor". She made this comment both before and after she cut open the area.
I would never doubt the amount and degree of training in veterinary skills that this young lady has, but when compared to my 18+ years as a handler and training director, but I have probably seen more dog bite related injuries and PD-K9 training injuries than I could shake a stick at with the tens of thousands of hours of seminars, basic training courses, in-service training, etc. Trust me, had I thought for a second that the injury was the least bit serious, I would have sent the handler to the vet and I would have went with him, calling the vet while enroute.
Hopefully this will help clear things up a bit. Gsdfan was only looking for opinions since in all her years of training, she too thought that what this new vet did was "overkill". What's done is done, and the dog is doing fine and was back in his training the next day. I should have thought quick enough to get a picture of what both gsdfan and myself had actually observed, since it undoubtedly would have removed all questions about how minor this injury really was.
Lesson learned here.... if our regular seniour staff vet is unavailable... i will have to accompany the team next time.
by hodie on 01 May 2010 - 23:05
BI,
What matters, and I am certain you will agree, is that the dog will be fine. None of us saw the wound, but I think many of us consider puncture wounds significant, as clearly did the vet. Was she overzealous? Perhaps, but I suspect it was not because she wanted to do anything but be sure the dog was fine. Perhaps you should speak to her about the treatment rendered. I would bet you that she was trying to do the right thing and perhaps she thought it was worse than it really was.
In any case, I think that it is unfortunate for anyone to blame others when they don't step up to the plate. What shines here is a lack of communication and perhaps inexperience, all around, with you as the exception. I still say "better safe than sorry" and I am happy that the dog is going to be fine. Again, I think that if she had done little to nothing and then the dog ended up with an infection, everyone would have been really upset. Fortunately, it was her overzealousness at issue rather than a serious infection.
What matters, and I am certain you will agree, is that the dog will be fine. None of us saw the wound, but I think many of us consider puncture wounds significant, as clearly did the vet. Was she overzealous? Perhaps, but I suspect it was not because she wanted to do anything but be sure the dog was fine. Perhaps you should speak to her about the treatment rendered. I would bet you that she was trying to do the right thing and perhaps she thought it was worse than it really was.
In any case, I think that it is unfortunate for anyone to blame others when they don't step up to the plate. What shines here is a lack of communication and perhaps inexperience, all around, with you as the exception. I still say "better safe than sorry" and I am happy that the dog is going to be fine. Again, I think that if she had done little to nothing and then the dog ended up with an infection, everyone would have been really upset. Fortunately, it was her overzealousness at issue rather than a serious infection.
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