Training problem - bark and hold - Page 3

Thank you so much for all the replies and helpful suggestions. I should perhaps explain that we live in Ecuador and very few people here train their dogs up to Schutzhund level, as to get kkl1 they only need to pass PAB which is a basic obedience and courage test (although this requirement may change in the near future). The trainer I wrote for is one of the few here who is trying to go further, he is also the only experienced helper in our area which makes it particularly difficult for him to train his own dog. He has attended various courses and watched a lot of videos eg Ivan Balavanov, and now uses the method wherby the dog has to bark to make the helper become active and get the bite. He does not speak English which does not help, and which is why he asked me to write here. I have translated to him all the replies here and he understands and agrees that with this dog he progessed to the blind too soon, it would have been more ideal to teach the bark and hold away from the blind as several have mentioned. He has already tried going back to the long line but maybe needs more time on this. The dog does not lack motivation or drive, rather he lacks control. This dog is over 3 years old, with newer dogs he has modified the training methods so now they know they have to bark first to get the bite, before working on the bark and hold in the blind. WiIl go through everything here in more detail and discuss with him. Many thanks.

As i said we do not use a Prong Collar when training a Dog in Protection at any time, It is not forbidden in the Club as no one can forbid a person to use it but they do not
On Obed they use a Prong on Dogs learning the ropes, but not on young dogs
IZZY is 5 months old and she will walk happy enough by my side, very much concentrating on me, But i do most training of this Part of OBed at the Club not at home, I start at home for a month and when the Pup is getting the idea i stop doing it in any other place eceprt for the training at the Club
Now she is learning to Sit and come to me and sit in front on command and sit correctly but on a long line so i have control of her, Once that is okay i will go onto the Down,  and when called sit in front once she is going on the Down i practise walking around her still in the down postiion i will step over her whist she is still in a down and then step back over her she must not move
To do this and reach what i have outlined above at her age i do not need to use a Prong Collar Once she grows up then i will put on a Prong Collar to give her the correction if needed but not on a young Pup but only then in training obed
And as i said if you are going to put your Dog on a BH, SCh1 2 or 3 test then you are not allowed to use a Prong Collar you use a chain collar leash on both rings
Therefore your dog must be obed without the use of a Prong Collar, That to me is training a Dog to get it trained to a handable level with just a flat leather collar, that is mostly what i use, At the moment Izzys leather collar is too small now so i use a Chain collar on both rings so it cannot tighten on her neck
Steve1

Oso,
I can understand the problem of being in an area with few people to train with.  I think what this handler needs to realize is that his dog will work differently when he as the owner is also the decoy.  I have seen some people decoy for their own dog and the dog is generally in more control and doesn't have as much drive when the handler decoys.  When you add a stranger as the decoy and this stranger agitates the dog, it puts the dog into a much higher drive and some of that control is gone. 

Perhaps part of the problem is the handler didn't expect his dog to react differently on a new helper and the dog was able to get dirty.  I would stop having the handler decoy for his dog and only work on regular decoys.   He definitely needs to take a step back in training and correct this before going further. 


Jim

I agree with Slamdunc... Unless a dog has a screw loose, he will not be "guarding" against his own handler. I have seen some really good handlers, that are also EXPERIENCED helpers do this, but they are really working on the barking stamina and perhaps even the "prey" dirtiness in the blind. They do this with a ball or jute in the blind, as the sleeve is not even necessary to accomplish this. A clear dog will not be working in the drive (fight/defense) we really want to see with his own handler.