Fixing training problem....update - Page 3

Hijack at will. 

I have to admit to using a bark collar for nuisance barking. However, most of my neighbors are very glad to have at least one side of their yards "protected" by a pack of lunatic GSDs.

I know what you mean about the corrections. One of our club members or another usually corrects for me because although she looks like a wuss above, she is actually a hardass. I can't figure out why she does that, the whacko! I wonder if it's not cringing but actually like a herding pose, and she's going to jump me if I get out of line.....

That exactly sounds like my male! And when he comes skulking over to me his hackles are all still up at whatever he had been barking at.
I did have a no-bark collar. My former foster cocker did Galan the favor of chewing it off one day when I let them play together. I haven't been able to find a way to fix it, so I may just have to buy a new one. If you have any ideas for fixing the old one I'll try them.
Since Galan is my barker he stays inside at night so not to disturb the neighbors as they complained to me once.
(Little side note... last night my car was broken into and my husband's wallet was stolen. It has $300 and his driver's license in it. We have a garage. I used to tell tell him to park it in there almost every night. He would say "I know, I'm gonna" and not do it. And I would also tell him, "Well if you're not going to keep it in the garage, DON'T LEAVE YOUR WALLET IN THERE!")
Ah well, sorry for venting... Lesson learned for him, he grew up in the country where he used to leave the keys in the ignition and the home doors unlocked.

I guess we have to try different tactics with our beaten dogs lol. I asked my TD about it one night and he laughed it off. He said that the dog is playing me. I don't know how, it SO frustrating. One day I was leaving work and I had just bathed and groomed him so he was with me.
He can be dog aggressive, so when he started to go nose-to-nose with a boxer (On a damn flexi-leash and oblivious owner) I gave him a firm "NO!" and didn't even correct him physically, he was on a flat collar,  and he dropped to the ground and cowered, squinting his eyes. I will tell you Vom Marischal, I almost died right there. I was mortified and can only imagine what everyone around me was thinking....
Stacy

I think there might be something you have forgotten to tell us. I see you say "what the HELL her problem is" and "grinning at her like and IDIOT". Maybe you are approaching like you sound in the post.

     Mark

Ya spose she knows I'M being the phony? I try very hard to look happy, but she might be seeing frustration... 

You have to be a really good actor to fool a dog. It could be from something totally different that carries over to the down. It could be the voice you use. I'm not there to see. A picture really doesn't tell a story to me. A dog can have shit grips but a picture can be taken at a split moment where it's full and you'll think wow that dog has nice grips. Atleast he's downing :)

     Mark

Alrighty here is what I think. First off I would agree with what PRAGER said. She is just acting like a pack animal would. She is showing submission to the pack leader.  Looking at this a little deeper and keeping in mind the pack drive, so to speak, of the dog.    
Here is what you said  "I have tried walking briskly, walking slowly, looking away from her, looking at her, grinning, ignoring her...all kinds of things. I guess everybody is just going to believe that I kick the crap out of her for breaking?  

 I think with you grinning at her it is reinforcing the pack drive. In your mind your are smiling at her but in her mind you are showing dominance. Also by making eye contact and grinning it is a double whammy so to speak.

So what I would do is TOTALLY change the way you approach Ally. I would definantly not make eye contact or grin at her. I would also not return to her from the front. Since this could be taken, on her part, as a show of dominance. Also you know she has this reaction from returning to her from the front. So I would change it up, that way it will be a "new" way of returning to her.....so this way you break the cycle of her cringing.  I would either return to her from the side or even from the rear. I would walk up calmly and quietly not saying a word to her.  Then release her and reward with either a ball or food. Which ever one you think would be more of a reward to her. I know how she LOVES her kong on a rope, so maybe I would use that as a reward for your return to her.     Does this make sense?

Good luck and see ya at class on Sunday!

My two cents.
At six she should know Plutzs is Plutz.
I would from the long down release her onto a ball that I would have.
I would do this 2 or 3 times until she looks at me with all her concentration, waiting to be released onto the ball/toy.
Then I would do the same but this time whilst walking towards her.
She should, if she has high drive be waiting in anticipation for the reward.
Im pretty sure this would work.
But before doing this she must have a solid plutz!
Good luck im sure you will get it right.

Jyl: I will definitely try circling around to return to her. The one thing I have been doing consistently is returning to her like I would in a trial. I need to break that up. Thanks.

marions, Oh, she knows that it's a platz. She never budges, even if it's for an hour, and I've never corrected her out there! All motivation. And I have been releasing with the toy. This isn't something I haven't gone around in circles with. That's why I'm frustrated...all the simple fixes aren't working.

Mark: I'm going to try psyching myself out next time. I'm going to find something she is doing that is GREAT, such as the perfect long down, and forget the annoying cringe. Then maybe I won't be acting and she'll believe me.

Scary business when I'm expected to be smarter than a DOG!

(by the way, this would probably not have bothered me except that there was a thread about a Nationals dog doing that, and everyone immediately assumed "too much compulsion." I'm here to tell you, it isn't necessarily the cause.)

If you can't fix it train something new!  Train her to keep her chin on the ground (like she is sleeping) and then maybe it won't look so bad.  I train the long down this way!  There is no reason for my dog to lift his chin off of the ground!  All he needs to do is lay there relaxed till I am back at his side!   Also, training them to keep their chin on the ground, IMO, keeps them from being tempted to break the long down.  A good German Trainer said to me once......"they should just lay there and take a nap!  There is nothing else to look at and nothing exciting for them to see.....just take a nap!"

Vickie
www.PowerHausKennels.com

PowerHaus;
How do you teach the long down with the chin on the ground.
If you dont mind sharing.
I have heard of it but never seen how one teaches it.