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by SitasMom on 02 August 2009 - 18:08
life for sita has become a living hell...........
she is on extended down with distraction even as i type. if she moves, i get her, correct her and put her back. she WILL understand that when I say platz, I mean it until I tell her otherwise.
we'll work on this one for as long as it takes........then we go to the next.
by Slamdunc on 02 August 2009 - 18:08
Sitasmom,
Sorry to hear you didn't pass. Better luck next time.
As I told you in a previous post there are 2 ways to fail the OB portion of the BH: 1) break the long down, you lose points and will probably not have enough points to pass after that. Even though it is pass fail, you still need enough points to pass. I explained on that thread how I proof the long down with another dog on the field. 2) If the dog leaves the field and doesn't return.
Mike West is a very fair judge and will not fail someone unfairly. He is a reasonable, nice guy, if your dog broke the long down you are pretty much finished. When you posted 2 weeks ago I mentioned with out seeing your dog, that you both weren't ready and if it was my dog I would skip this BH. Form the pictures you posted of your OB routine last week, your dog was "flat" and not in really high drive. Her recall was slow and it showed you need to work together more.
Compulsion is not the answer for this dog.
I've been too "nice" with her, she shall come to understand what compulsion is starting tomorrow morning.
You haven't been consistent with her and don't take it out on her now. I have failed trials in the past and possibly will in the future, but one thing I learned is that I won't enter my dog until I'm sure it's ready. You need to go back to step 1 and start all over, you need to learn how to motivationally train your dog so she wants to work for you. You mentioned 2 weeks ago the dog ran off the field while doing OB and went back to your car. Something is missing in your training. The dog should think you are so much fun that it would never want to leave your side and pushes you to work. I can't take my dogs out with out them jumping and pushing me to do OB. After the dog has that much desire and learns that working is fun then you can add some corrections; after the dog understands the exercise.
I guarantee if you go out and "yank and crank" your dog, she will be worse than before and you can forget about titling her. Dog sport and training has evolved a lot over the past ten years or so, heavy compulsion is not the way to go. You have to reward good behavior with praise and reward and pair compulsion for disobedience with praise and reward when correct. You are not experienced enough to start using heavy compulsion.
Schutzhund is not a race it's a journey that you take with your dog. You are both supposed to enjoy the journey, there will be another trial and you can do the BH then. Look on the bright side, you got a fair impartial assessment of your dogs current level of training. Now you know what to work on. You also need to know that you have to modify your training methods to fit both you and the dog better.
Don't get discouraged, just have fun with your dog and the training will come.
JMO,
Jim
Sorry to hear you didn't pass. Better luck next time.
As I told you in a previous post there are 2 ways to fail the OB portion of the BH: 1) break the long down, you lose points and will probably not have enough points to pass after that. Even though it is pass fail, you still need enough points to pass. I explained on that thread how I proof the long down with another dog on the field. 2) If the dog leaves the field and doesn't return.
Mike West is a very fair judge and will not fail someone unfairly. He is a reasonable, nice guy, if your dog broke the long down you are pretty much finished. When you posted 2 weeks ago I mentioned with out seeing your dog, that you both weren't ready and if it was my dog I would skip this BH. Form the pictures you posted of your OB routine last week, your dog was "flat" and not in really high drive. Her recall was slow and it showed you need to work together more.
Compulsion is not the answer for this dog.
I've been too "nice" with her, she shall come to understand what compulsion is starting tomorrow morning.
You haven't been consistent with her and don't take it out on her now. I have failed trials in the past and possibly will in the future, but one thing I learned is that I won't enter my dog until I'm sure it's ready. You need to go back to step 1 and start all over, you need to learn how to motivationally train your dog so she wants to work for you. You mentioned 2 weeks ago the dog ran off the field while doing OB and went back to your car. Something is missing in your training. The dog should think you are so much fun that it would never want to leave your side and pushes you to work. I can't take my dogs out with out them jumping and pushing me to do OB. After the dog has that much desire and learns that working is fun then you can add some corrections; after the dog understands the exercise.
I guarantee if you go out and "yank and crank" your dog, she will be worse than before and you can forget about titling her. Dog sport and training has evolved a lot over the past ten years or so, heavy compulsion is not the way to go. You have to reward good behavior with praise and reward and pair compulsion for disobedience with praise and reward when correct. You are not experienced enough to start using heavy compulsion.
Schutzhund is not a race it's a journey that you take with your dog. You are both supposed to enjoy the journey, there will be another trial and you can do the BH then. Look on the bright side, you got a fair impartial assessment of your dogs current level of training. Now you know what to work on. You also need to know that you have to modify your training methods to fit both you and the dog better.
Don't get discouraged, just have fun with your dog and the training will come.
JMO,
Jim
by Slamdunc on 02 August 2009 - 18:08
life for sita has become a living hell...........
Geez, sita must be a democrat. I think I saw her vote for Obama......
Seriously, don't do that to the poor dog. You need to take responsibility for your training and entering her when she wasn't properly prepared. You need to read some books on positive training like Sheila Booth's book, "Purely Positive Training" or read "Don't shoot the dog" by Karen Prior. Get Ivan's book or Bernhard Flinks DVD. You need to analyze your training and change it. What you are doing is antiquated and will not give good results. Do some research and get some books and then think about how you are going to train each exercise.
Jim
Geez, sita must be a democrat. I think I saw her vote for Obama......
Seriously, don't do that to the poor dog. You need to take responsibility for your training and entering her when she wasn't properly prepared. You need to read some books on positive training like Sheila Booth's book, "Purely Positive Training" or read "Don't shoot the dog" by Karen Prior. Get Ivan's book or Bernhard Flinks DVD. You need to analyze your training and change it. What you are doing is antiquated and will not give good results. Do some research and get some books and then think about how you are going to train each exercise.
Jim
by VomRuiz on 02 August 2009 - 19:08
I'm sorry to hear Sita failed. I hope you two do better next time.
Galan is scheduled for BH in December and I'm more worried about me screwing up than him. He's great, I'm inconsistent, I hate to admit, but I am learning. Heeling, long down, distractions, I know Dec is a long way away but I have so much work to do. Well, you just got me motivated enough to get off my fat ass and get out there for a while... Better luck next time. Learn from your mistakes! And don't forget to have fun!
~Stacy
Galan is scheduled for BH in December and I'm more worried about me screwing up than him. He's great, I'm inconsistent, I hate to admit, but I am learning. Heeling, long down, distractions, I know Dec is a long way away but I have so much work to do. Well, you just got me motivated enough to get off my fat ass and get out there for a while... Better luck next time. Learn from your mistakes! And don't forget to have fun!
~Stacy
by wuzzup on 02 August 2009 - 20:08
sueincc I have seen dogs who would not come off the sleeve pass .They had to be choked out to release .
by Slamdunc on 02 August 2009 - 22:08
Wuzzup,
there is no bite work in a BH. I really doubt you have seen dogs choked off a sleeve in a SchH trial and pass; maybe in a Breed Survey or during the bite work at a Conformation Show, but not in an actual trial. The Breed Survey rules and the bitework in Conformation shows is certainly judged differently than at a trial.
I happen to know the judge at this event and have trialed under him and have done helper certifications under him. Mike West is honest, fair, friendly, respected and tries to help new handlers. He is a very nice guy and genuinely wants to see new handlers succeed at the sport. With that said, you can't pass the BH if the dogs breaks the long down. Too many points are lost. I would be suspect if I watched a BH and this happened and a handler passed. It's not the end of the world just a bad day at the club. There will be many more good days ahead and occasionally days where the dog says "nah, not today." It happens to everyone who has ever competed in any dog sport. You live and learn.
Jim
there is no bite work in a BH. I really doubt you have seen dogs choked off a sleeve in a SchH trial and pass; maybe in a Breed Survey or during the bite work at a Conformation Show, but not in an actual trial. The Breed Survey rules and the bitework in Conformation shows is certainly judged differently than at a trial.
I happen to know the judge at this event and have trialed under him and have done helper certifications under him. Mike West is honest, fair, friendly, respected and tries to help new handlers. He is a very nice guy and genuinely wants to see new handlers succeed at the sport. With that said, you can't pass the BH if the dogs breaks the long down. Too many points are lost. I would be suspect if I watched a BH and this happened and a handler passed. It's not the end of the world just a bad day at the club. There will be many more good days ahead and occasionally days where the dog says "nah, not today." It happens to everyone who has ever competed in any dog sport. You live and learn.
Jim
by yellowrose of Texas on 02 August 2009 - 22:08
Sitasmom is now impressed with all the comments you good guys have given her...I just got thru with a pm to her when I found out last night what happened...
There was a big change in a shedule time change at the last minute that ruined her plans for an evening with her and her husband already planned....
The dog shedule for BH got changed from morning to night..... she was stressed and Sita knew it...I told her this in her email this morning......dogs read their master.....Sita knew something was up...she could read her MOM>...
I pointed out to her that Sita needs more time with eye contact and more time with excited training that makes her want to jump right into the pattern with her MOM.....all in all,,, this was Sitasmom first try at a sport she is new in and she has been going to trial all this last year .....REMEMBER HUTTO!!!!!!!! FIRST time to meet her and Hero...didn't meet Sita..
Her trainer will help her , after all he is a Schutzhund Judge and knows....it is Mom learning what gets Sita excited and what works with her...she has to create a new interest to get her to speed up and to stay next to knee and to look completely at her face at all times....she can do it....just change a few things and get back on track....it is ok to practice long downs in house while you are working on computor...Adrian Ledda showed me several tricks in the house to do ...I will pass them on to you.............nothing wrong at all....but when she breaks the platz do not be harsh...just put her back in place and continue the time on her....do not do the platz in place too long at first.......increase the time by 5 min intervals each three days she does good.....this way she will not think she is being a punishment phase.......time increase only after she accomplishes the time you have set for now........judge that by the time she has done it good......only reward the good....do not let her think you are upset......she already read that once....ok now for new reports from you next week...I am sure you will have the platz in place first of all in correction before too long.....kennel her after she is released and praised...the kenneling lets them think about what they just did....also I like to kennel before session starts to maintain the on the MOMS only attention when she comes out...she then wants to do for you.... later.
There was a big change in a shedule time change at the last minute that ruined her plans for an evening with her and her husband already planned....
The dog shedule for BH got changed from morning to night..... she was stressed and Sita knew it...I told her this in her email this morning......dogs read their master.....Sita knew something was up...she could read her MOM>...
I pointed out to her that Sita needs more time with eye contact and more time with excited training that makes her want to jump right into the pattern with her MOM.....all in all,,, this was Sitasmom first try at a sport she is new in and she has been going to trial all this last year .....REMEMBER HUTTO!!!!!!!! FIRST time to meet her and Hero...didn't meet Sita..
Her trainer will help her , after all he is a Schutzhund Judge and knows....it is Mom learning what gets Sita excited and what works with her...she has to create a new interest to get her to speed up and to stay next to knee and to look completely at her face at all times....she can do it....just change a few things and get back on track....it is ok to practice long downs in house while you are working on computor...Adrian Ledda showed me several tricks in the house to do ...I will pass them on to you.............nothing wrong at all....but when she breaks the platz do not be harsh...just put her back in place and continue the time on her....do not do the platz in place too long at first.......increase the time by 5 min intervals each three days she does good.....this way she will not think she is being a punishment phase.......time increase only after she accomplishes the time you have set for now........judge that by the time she has done it good......only reward the good....do not let her think you are upset......she already read that once....ok now for new reports from you next week...I am sure you will have the platz in place first of all in correction before too long.....kennel her after she is released and praised...the kenneling lets them think about what they just did....also I like to kennel before session starts to maintain the on the MOMS only attention when she comes out...she then wants to do for you.... later.
by malshep on 02 August 2009 - 23:08
I sorry to hear of your day. Hang in there.
Always,
Cee
Always,
Cee
by sueincc on 03 August 2009 - 01:08
I think it's very important to remember never work a dog when you are angry, mad or even just a little pissed.
by SitasMom on 03 August 2009 - 02:08
Today, Sita has started to learn what platz really means she is also leanring that watch is not optional...........she's a really smart dog. She knew last night that she F*cked up............she is more then willing to learn the new rules.
I got her to "watch" (eye to eye contact) for all of 4 minutes today. and a distracted down stay for 10 minutes.
We will do fine in a few months..............when I can find another BH trial close by.
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