showline bred with workingline - Page 27

Forgive me if I am wrong but wasn't this the goal of Busecker Sch-loss kennels and now Cap Arkona and they have had great success with fussing great working dogs with the all the drive and looks of both? Possibly it can be done.

 Beauty is very subjective, the bottomline is breeders don´t cross the lines because they have drifted to far apart both in structure and workingability. The modern showdog has nothing to do with a workingdog but it´s seems the nightmare for some is if a GSD will looks a bit like a mal in structure, even if they would benefit from this as a workingdog.


Breeders also has different goals, a "shitter "for some could be a breedingcandidate for others. Some may use a stud because he has a nice workingstructure, good pedigree and gives healthy dogs even if he isn´t that impressive in protection, what´s intressting is a mediocre dog could also produce some good dogs, so it´s not always black and white why people choose to breed as they do. I´ve seen a few studs that I didn´t like in protection, but some of the offspring have been pretty nice. I suppose even canto produced some nice dogs depending on the bitch used, so laying focus to far back in a pedigree seems pointless when we don´t even know if a certain dog is to blame or not after so long time. It´s often pointless to look beoynd 3 generations a well known geneticist said, may times people get uppset about a weak dog appearing 1-2 times in the 4-5th generation even if his influence is very small in the present dog. AS he also said ,breeding is a bit like driviing a car, it couild be good to look around your shoulder sometimes but the most important thing is to look forward so you don´t drive off the road. 

So I assume in jeffs dog or some others, potential weakness has been weeded out since the 60s, assuming the dogs in the pedigree has been selected for work and health the last 30 years or so. 

 Quote: Breeders also has different goals, a "shitter "for some could be a breedingcandidate for others

THere really should be a class for some sort of minimum standard. 

It is no secret I am a wrestler.  I’ve been wrestling since I was a kid.  As a wrestler, you have to put on sweats, cut weight, and condition your body constantly to prepare for sometimes the toughest 7 minutes of your life.  It is arguably the hardest physical sport ever.  But that is a whole other topic.

I started using shepherds in my workouts to make the workouts less boring.  It was also nice to have a companion that could actually keep up with me.  Of course I chose a working line shepherd as it seemed to only make sense that if I were to have a dog run with me it would have to be a tough working dog, right?  As time went on, I started to realize that humans have much more endurance, over the long haul, than canines.  That is just a fact.  I learned this firsthand.  A good conditioned human athlete should be able to outlast any canine athlete in any marathon run I believe.  Therefore, I had to use a few shepherds to alternate daily as it started to become obvious to me they couldn’t handle it on a daily basis.  After all, we do wear shoes when we run.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I got my first show line shepherd about 6 years ago.  A Sergio Bad-Boll son.  All I can tell you is that I now have a much better appreciation for the show line shepherds.  Even though this dog wouldn’t chase a ball if his life depended on it, he sure could run like the wind blows, nearly every day of the week, 12 months out of the year, not near as many problems either.  From that moment on I became a fan of the show lines as well.  Their endurance is simply remarkable.

I’m only bringing this up again because quite honestly I never hear anyone talking about this strength of theirs at length.  And I think there is this big misconception among the general public that show line shepherds aren’t built to work.  That couldn’t be further from the truth.  I started attending German style shows and sure enough, anyone can witness my assertions first hand just by watching the shape the working lines (and some show lines) are in by the time the show is over.  From my point of view, it is so obvious I couldn’t help but talk about it since no one else seems to.

Now for those of you, who are joggers, looking for a good companion to jog with, check out the show lines.  You will not be disappointed.  And for those of you, who are joggers, who has a working line bitch that has other great qualities that you just can’t live without; If you ever plan on breeding that bitch you may want to at least consider breeding her to a show line dog, if absolutely necessary of course.

I just wanted to make my point of view just a little clearer is all.  Enjoy your dogs.

 Quote: I’m only bringing this up again because quite honestly I never hear anyone talking about this strength of theirs at length. And I think there is this big misconception among the general public that show line shepherds aren’t built to work.

Not for nothing, but what good does it do anyone if the dog can run forever, but doesn't work ? If all you want is a dog that will run with you, then fine, but really, endurance doesn't mean much in that case.

Your right, endurance doesn't mean much if all you want to do is compete with the dog in Schutzhund.  But let’s not forget, shepherds were bred to herd sheep originally.  Endurance is everything in that task.  And for police officers who have to track a criminal over great distances, I would suspect endurance would become a factor eventually in that task too.

Endurance in the animal is very important and I think the working line community is doing themselves a big disservice if they don't at least recognize it as a very important quality in their breeding programs.  Otherwise, you are just breeding Rottweiler’s in shepherd coats.

Maywood,

No offence, but you're an idiot. Working lines don't have endurance issues. You keep stating this without any substantial proof. I'm sorry, but your experience with some working lines doesn't cut it. We know nothing about the dogs you've seen or how they have been raised. If you can't offer anything more than," this is my experience" than you're full of it. I haven't seen one other person agree with these statements yet. 

If we can just make statements without any type of proof, then here's mine, show lines all have weak grips and none of them can jump. Show line breeders need to focus on these issues or the breed will be destroyed.LOL 

na

There's less drag when running with a tucked tail. 

Kidding aside, it would be interesting to know other people's experience with the endurance levels of their dogs, show or working.  Not having put it to the test with all my workingline dogs, I can only say from experience that half of them have the endurance to run all day without stop.  Maybe that's an exception in either class of breeding.

The conformation of my dogs when running generally does not appear anything like the smooth and graceful stride of of american showlines, that's supposedly more "efficient".  But the other hand, I've never myself seen an american showline able to cover ground with it's nose low.  The pic I've posted below doesn't exactly show what I want to depict, but that dog is able to cover ground with bewildering speed while tracking.  His croup usually appears more obviously higher than his shoulders are while fast tracking.

 Quote: Your right, endurance doesn't mean much if all you want to do is compete with the dog in Schutzhund. But let’s not forget, shepherds were bred to herd sheep originally. Endurance is everything in that task.

No, the drive to do the work is everything. If you had ever done anything with a dog in your life, you would realize that none of what you said is true. You think the dogs that are herding are just running back and forth all day ?? Please.

I have no idea about how far a dog should run, I just know that they can go pretty dang far, usually farther than I have time to mess with each day, thats for sure. I know if they have no drive, there is no point to having endurance.