workingline best new stud - Page 24

I,m sorry I just don,t believe there is a "Best" But there are some very good males producing there types with good breeding practices it can even be more consistent.

Bob, since I assume you are once again bashing me, have you looked at the topic of this thread?  it is about stud dogs, not females.  If the topic was about females, then the conversation would be different, I'm sure.  If you knew what you were talking about (about me, since you are apparently bashing me and my program again) - you would have known that I ONLY breed to quality titled females.  The females are EXTREMELY important to any serious program.  ALL of my females are top of the line, from the best proven top pedigrees in the WORLD - and ALL of my females are titled legitimately, worked "for real" in front of anyone who wants to see them work, and healthy/health tested/hip rated before breeding.   And I am one of the VERY FEW breeders in this country who breed only proven titled dogs - no excuses needed for my program.  But this is not the topic of this thread, is it Bob?

nuff said. 

molly
Eichenluft
http://workinggermanshepherd.com

 My hats off to you Molly, I,ve never seen such self promoting on the site as you..I stand humbled... 

Corleone has nailed this IMO.  The problem is in the question (best and new).  Time can only tell.

Not including the female in the equation is very old school in thought and theory.  After the litter is on the ground the dam has 8 weeks with the litter.  How much of an influence does this add to the picture?

Molly, even in the description of Doc's pedigree, much respect is given to the dam's in his pedigree.

Kyle

You can,t prove a TOP stud without breeding to top females...Is in direct correlation to the topic.

Molly,
I happen to like Doc's genetics alot and I think his sire is also a very good dog.
As for Asko, I don't always look to a stud dog for toughness, I also sometimes want to increase my hip situation, drives, structure, etc depending on what I think I need. Like Aly Vordinsteinwald, I would breed to him in a minute if I had the right female who has good toughness but her line might not be noted for hips. Aly brings good structure and hips genes. Asko also brought good hip genes. In the total picture, I think dogs such as Aly, ans Asko have been as asset to the breed. Maybe not in producing killers, but there's more to breeding then just toughness. 

One thing I do not want to delve into is fray, but here is what I see discussed. . . a little semblance of genetics but not enough.   Yeh, that's what I said.

Consider the stud dog, since that is what we are talking about, just him.
Mike Suttle's successes are a lot of luck.  His failures to produce on some are lack of knowledge. and I say those things and still say Mike Suttle is a pretty darn smart guy so no harm but praise  here as I don't tell just anyone that they are smart. Just using him today as an example - hope he doesn't mind. 

the stud dog and his whole bag of genetics.  What's in it?  Yep, that's the question!   How are you determining what is genetic and what is environmental?    

breeding to ANY female that is known in her production - good , bad or indifferent- tells you much about your stud dog.   those of you who have spent all your time in the U.S. do not get to see those "lets see what this makes" breedings in Europe. 

Many German Shepherd breeders mark successful stud dogs only in terms of titles.  Fault here and I hate to fault this one because it IS an important breed standard, is trainers must get those pups to title them.  So, what other characteristics can we objectively measure?  Isn't that what most of you are asking? 

Let's start with this one, a new workingline stud dog has parents that have desirable quantifiable traits that we see in their offspring.  Ok!  Great start!  Now can we repeat this?

thanks all
Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com

There have been 2 negative comments on Asko in this thread. About him being a made dog. I'm curious as to the source of this information? Having spoken with many of the helpers that actually worked this dog, in trial and training.  As well as someone who saw him win the BSP and was right next to the dog. None of these people have ever mentioned this.  Quite the opposite.  I have seen many Asko offspring and they were nice dogs with an edge to them in the civil. Also we've seen many Asko offspring in higher trials. So where is this idea comming from? I must state right off that I do not have any Asko blood in any of my dogs at this time. So there is no kennel blindness here.

Rick

 

If Asko was MADE.. and you claim that MADE dogs do not produce. 


SG Lion Vom Bellington

Kway vom Posthorn

SG1 Stuka vom Enckhausen

Mücke vom Haus Vortkamp


Those are just a few here in the US, many more in Germany. 

You started it Bob - and you get a response with only the facts.  If that is self-promoting, then so be it.  It is the facts as prompted by YOU.  Thanks Bob!  LOL

molly