Brown Undercoat? - Page 2

Yes, too much sun has a bleaching effect on black dog hair... I have a black GSD who likes to sun himself, which means some of his hair (usually on the tail) will turn a reddish color. His undercoat does turn an almost reddish brown just before it sheds out also. My Bi-color, on the other hand, has a lighter undercoat on about half of her body (black outer coat) and the other half is black. She looks an absolute mess when she blows her coat, nothing like these dogs and nothing like her normal thick coat does. I *think* it comes from having a sable parent, something that parent carries. Bicolor to black seems to produce a nice dark undercoat. Limited observations here, take them for what they're worth.

Melissa

I only have one bicolor here right now. She's shedding now; I can try to take pics. It's "black" but not really really black...kind of a dusty, yucky looking dark gray. I do think she may shed lighter on her thighs, though if memory serves from past seasons??? And yeah, Beetree, the undercoat under her tan markings is lighter.

Reddish can be sun bleaching, or it can be minerals...trying to remember what causes that...high copper, low zinc maybe??? Learned that w/horses. My Friesian, a true black, had his mane fade at the tips his very first summer. Natural barefoot trimmer and brilliant woman said she'd done a study on our area water and hay and a lot of fading was attributed to high copper and low zinc. I supplemented him and it didn't happen anymore. He is now 5, living in an area without those issues (he lives w/my best friend currently) and it has never happened again and he stays absolutely dark, jet black and only those very old tips of his mane and tail show any red whatsoever. It's something to wonder about, anyway. I have a
TWH who is black most of the year, but at the end of summer fades out to a dark or black bay. I think the bicolor vs. black GSD shedding differences are probably similar to my black TWH vs. my black Friesian; one is a black in the truest sense and one appears black, but has different genetics for color. 

Caleb, who never had a single lighter colored hair anywhere, shed black black black. My other black who has faint bleeding between his pads sheds a lighter grayish brownish undercoat. I would not be surprised at all if he matures to have bleeding in the ares where his mother has tan markings. This has happened in a few genetically black Capri pups as they aged. 

My male, Arko, is a dark bi-color. His undercoat is black. When he sheds, it is always black hairs. But his daughter is a lighter bi-color with the tan undertones. She is currently blowing her coat, so she is appearing darker than she does normally-- all the tan undercoat is coming out.
Both parents are bi-color, but her mother, and grandmother on the mother's side both have tan undertones to their coats.


Amanda

And my male, who is a dark bi-color with zero tan undertones had a solid black father, and a sable mother.

Amanda

I had a dog similar to that. He was a sable who carried bicolor, threw bicolor pups, sable pups, solid black pups. 

His son, who I own, is a melanistic bicolor with a solid black undercoat. 

He was best described as a sable, with bicolor patterning. I've seen it on other dogs as well. This dog is not mine, but it's a good example of the so-called "bicolor sable."
 

, 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=722509-bicolor-to-sable-breedingcolor-possibilities&pagen=2