Why is he black and tan? - Page 2

I called the breeder to ask him for his brothers and sisters and he told me they are black, sable and he has a sister who is the same color as Fidu. Thank averybody who has  contributed  to resolve my doubt, now i have a better idea why Fidu is black and tan. However I think it is very rare he has that colour.

However I think it is very rare he has that colour.

Nope.  Standard genetics

Christine Kemper recently had a litter out of a black and red female sired by a sable male.  She has sables, one black and tan, and a black

So, which are dominant and which are recessive genes? the breeder told me sable is dominant, i dont remember exactly but  i think he explained  if both of the parent are black and they have grand parents  sables the puppies will be sable. So I think that it is in this order: 1.sable, 2.black, and 3.black and tan. isn't it?

From Ibrahim

Dominance sequence of color genes in GSD:
Sable
Black/tan
Bi-color
Solid black

Sable is a dominant gene, all other colors are recessive.

i think he explained  if both of the parent are black and they have grand parents  sables the puppies will be sable

No.  Black bred to black will only produce black.  Doesn't matter what color eitiher of their parents were.

You have to have at least ONE sable parent to get sable puppies

The black in GSD's is a recessive gene, unlike most other breeds, and must be thought of as both pattern and color. Think of it that way, and it all makes sense. To see all black you need ONE gene from EACH parent. Sable is a dominant gene, therefore to see sable only one parent MUST be sable. A pup with both Sable genes from each parent is said to be homozygous for Sable, meaning the dog can only ever contribute Sable genes to any pairing, as the two genes he has are both the same, and all first generation progeny will be Sable. Second generations bred to anything other than a homozygous Sable will give rise to more variety, even a black and tan.
 
Hope this helps. 

 

Something does not add up, If B/T is in the litter then the sire passed it, carrying BT /Sable
But if any littermates were solid black, hummm any Dominant black in the line?
 

I called the breeder to ask him for his brothers and sisters and he told me they are black, sable and he has a sister who is the same color as Fidu. Thank averybody who has  contributed  to resolve my doubt, now i have a better idea why Fidu is black and tan. However I think it is very rare he has that colour.

So, is there something wrong?

GSD Lineage, that is what I was just thinking. Mom is all black, so sire must be Sable/Black&Tan.... so where did the other Black gene come from then?

Melissa

Recessive genes are hidden and will only show if it pairs up with the same recessive gene from another parent (recessive/ recessive homozygous), whereas dominant trait will show in heterozygous form (recessive/dominant, dominant/recessive), and homozygous form (dominant/dominant).

Recessive traits are very difficult to root out because they are hidden, and you can not eliminate what is hidden, and will pop out once in a while especially in linebreeding.  You can get recessive colors  from matings of  two dominant colors especially in linebreeding (homozygous by descent if they have black in their lineage), or even if they are not linebred (homozygous by type, both parents are not related but each have a black color ancestor).  

I am not sure if modifier and diluter genes are present in dogs, but if present, these will result to new color patterns, and darker or lighter shade in every color pattern.

I am not really sure with these, just basing these in chicken genetics.  We have been breeding chickens for more than 40 years.  We have a strain of chicken that we call lemonhackle, light mahogany with yellow/orange hackle on neck feathers and are very gentle.  If we linebreed/inbreed them, 1 in every 10 will come out light gold color all over and these throwbacks are very mean.  This physical and behavioral traits are pleiotropic, where the gene that is responsible for their gold color is also responsible for their mean behavior.  We have been trying to root this trait out but we are not succesfull.

Color patterns are simple  genetics or Mendellian and have specific locations in the chromosomes and follows a Mendellian rule of inheritance. Behavioral genetics is complex, no specific location in the chromosomes, it involves interactions of several genes, are additive, and with varying degree in every littermates.  Picking the most courageous/dominant male and female to mate and doing this for several generations will produce courageous/dominant strains of dog. If you pick the most cowardly specimens and breed them for several generations, you will produce cowardly strain of dogs.  The same in hunting and retrieving abilities of gun dogs, and also in gamemess and fighting styles of gamecocks.

One more thing, all new physical traits as in color patterns, sizes, and forms will start from mutation.  From the original wild type genes (original genes from wolves) changes from thereon will start from mutation.

If the dam is solid black and the sire is sable, the pups can be sable and either black or black and tan, you can only get all three if the dam is not a solid black.

Margaret N-J