Caring for a Large Litter - Page 2

I have had litters of 13 that do just fine, I feed the moms raw chicken legs with the thigh on to bring in the milk.
If you supplement the pups with formula the demand for the mom to produce more milk will dwindle as if 
some pups are no longer there.......let everyone take turns nursing, and if you see a fat plump pup nursing,
take him off and put the smallest one on that nipple so the small one will catch up;)

  You want the pups to have mothers milk before resorting to supplements, mother's milk gives immunity to the pups

 

There are puppies born that dams care for that do not mature into healthy adults either.  I couldn't watch puppies die without trying to at least give them a chance. If that meant supplementing the smaller weaker pups, then that's what I would do. Not all of them will mature into sickly adults either.

I adopted a pup that was the runt of the litter. The largest pup was 22 oz., and she was only 8.5. The owner rotated pups on the nipples, and she did just fine. By the time she was 8 weeks, she had caught up to her sisters, and was no longer the smallest of the 3.

Today she is a healthy adult. With her being so small at birth, I doubt she would have been able to compete with the bigger pups and might have died.

Unless there's an obvious physical problem, I would give all pups a chance.  In the next litter, one pup wasn't thriving, and it turned out it had a badly cleft palate. It was euthanized. I would not try to save a pup with such an obvious defect. though recently there was a thread on here about just such a pup. (It was a bully breed, though, not a GSD, and had a cleft palate that even affected the nose!) 

Nursing is definitely a supply/demand thing for the mother, so I, too, would hesitate to supplement unless the dam's milk supply was so bad the pups were starving. And, if THAT was the case, I'd be taking Mom to the vet, as sometimes a retained placenta or other problem can be the reason for the lack of milk.

Thank you everyone for your comments.

I should have been clearer.  I only started supplementing this weekend.  I became worried when I read puppies should have doubled their birth weight by 7 to 10 days, and mine are not close.  I did try to bottle feed puppy 10 and 11 during the time they wouldn't latch to mom, but it was not successful.  Those two started nursing on their own all of a sudden so I then left them alone until this weekend.  I wouldn't even call them weak, as they are very feisty about getting to the nipple.  So that first week, I didn't intervene at all and then began to second guess myself.  And when I say she's nursing around the clock, I often see a few nursing every time I check on her.  If I'm studying in her puppy room, there are occasional times that she is puppy free.    And she's obviously not nursing when I take her out to play, potty, or give her break to watch TV with me.

Everyone looks healthy and vigorous. Most are starting to totter a few steps on all fours.  Its so friggin adorable.  In theory, I agree with Jenni.  But when they are here and so darn cute laying in front of me, I cant help but fall in love and want the best for them, whatever that may be. If lower weights are normal for large litters, and everyone turns out well in the end, I have no problem stepping back and letting momma do all the hard work.  I just wanted to double check.

Where do you find the sodium levels in kibble?  I have no problem switching kibble, or supplementing raw.  My mentor was adamant about no raw because he had had a bitch come down with eclampsia. But I am all ears and open to the experiences of this community.  Now, I do plan on weaning early and onto raw.

I have only bred 1 litter, so take below as you may.

Both of my vets said not to worry so much about "meeting the standard."   As long as the puppies gained weight and acted with energy, all is well.  Watch for running noses and keep mom on a healthy diet; the puppies should be fine.   I had mom on Purina EM and ensure to keep her health up.  One of the puppies actually started eating the EM at 2 weeks (much to Rose's dismay);  I just watched to make sure the puppy still nursed mostly.   I actually keep that puppy (14 months now) and he still will eat anything he is given.

From the sounds of things, I think your puppies are doing fine.  You might drop a quick call to your vet to go over anything you need to watch for.  After that, have fun.  They grow up way too fast and only become cuter.

I understood you weren't "having" to supplement; I was speaking more generally, except for the 2 weak pups if they continued to struggle. I don't like that they didn't nurse much for 48 hours, but unless you were watching them around the clock and didn't even sleep, you may have missed it. Your bitch may know full well they need more and be giving it to them when you're not around. Like I said, I'm not even sure you have a problem. It sounds like your only problem is not enough water for mom, if you think she's not producing enough milk, and it's not just sodium in the kibble, it's protein. The more protein, the more water. A "power packed" kibble like that takes some work to break down into usable components. Sodium makes them thirsty, but protein zaps the body of water, too.This is why people notice when they switch to a way better quality kibble, from, say, Iams, that their dogs are drinking tons of water. Partly sodium, partly protein difference.  Feeding a dehydrated food with that much protein is hard on a dog's body- imagine 9 cups per day her body has to assimilate and digest on top of feeding those pups!

If you must feed a TOTW formula, I'd switch to a lower calcium one soon, or at least by the time they start eating it on their own. Instead of totally switching her food, I'd just add raw a few times per day. Feed her kibble when it's the only convenient way to feed her, but several times per day, give her fatty (27%fat) ground beef and a chicken leg quarter or two. Feed her that much less kibble. I think  you'll be surprised how much less she needs to eat. I have never fed a dog that much kibble, honestly. With the Caleb pups, my largest litter and the largest pups, I was feeding mostly green tripe, venison, various ground mixes (including some organ meat) and chicken. Capri was not eating nearly as much as you'd expect her to eat, feeding pups that size. She maintained her weight much easier than when I'd not been able to feed exclusively raw. Those pups were solid as rocks on that diet, too, absolutely thriving. 

I disagree with the eclampsia scare off raw food. I especially would not rely on synthetics to provide what her body needs. I would go for chicken leg quarters, tripe, etc. for calcium that you KNOW she can assimilate properly and that the pups' bodies are less likely to store inappropriate amounts of because they don't recognize it as calcium (there is a theory that certain forms of calcium can be more or less likely to cause skeletal abnormalities because pups' bodies are not as adept at ridding themselves of excess, therefore, they store inappropriate amounts and do not utilize what's being fed properly...don't know if that's why, but it makes some sense when you look at certain skeletal problems). Since there are so many unknowns about this stuff, I feel like the more natural the better, and would give mom as much raw, natural foods as possible. I am guessing that the eclampsia scare comes from people who don't feed a properly balanced raw diet??? If you're just feeding steaks to a lactating bitch, then sure, she's going to have problems at some point. But if you just swapped out some kibble for more moisture-rich, natural foods, I think you'd see better weight maintenance, more milk, and she would regain her pre-pregnancy condition faster, as the toll on her body will be decreased. I will see if I can find pics...Capri looked freaking amazing w/those Caleb pups...and they were a demanding bunch. I was fortunate to be getting all the raw I could ever want, totally free at that point. Oh, those were the days! 

In closing..sounds like you've really got it pretty much under control...these are merely suggestions to tweak things a bit if you're worried. 

Thanks Jenni.  Switching her now to Blue Wilderness and adding chicken quarters.

Forget the blue and go with the raw chicken and green tripe. My dam had 9 pups and will nurse several half hour sessions a day. She never runs dry. All pups are thriving! Happy and healthy, growing like a weed. Mother knows best. Trust her. JMO       Best of luck and Take Care