the diverse german shepherd - Page 2

Eddy - yes, but we could argue that that's there already in both the
Euro and US Showlines.
What I take exception to is people breeding 'off Standard', in reducing
GSDs to 'just another household pet / all things to all people'
temperaments.   Notably when trying to consolidate fancy colours.
Especially as all too often health is also compromised.

i agree hundmutter.................health should nevr be compromised............but there are breeders who get it right.

the von kirschental kennels were one..............pure working shepherd dogs and nice looking too.

why don't people emulate karl fullers approach more??

but again its the diversity in the shepherd gene pool that makes it quite fascinating to me............from all whites to all blacks and everything in between,short coats,long coats, 60lbs to 125 lbs.....................

most important is they're healthy and retain some of that shepherd character...........

Aaykay: Health, temperament, working ability, conformation - at the end of the day the BREEDER is responsible for his own breeding stock - neither SV nor any judge.
This doesn´t depend on show/working lines but on the single breeders ethic.

Believe me or not - faults are made in BOTH lines.
A lot of Showline breeder look for conformation only -
a lot of workingline breeder look for working ability only.

There are workinglines not worth breeding and there are showlines not worth breeding.
On the other hand there are showlines with great working abilities and there are workinglines with great structure.

The BREEDER decides about stud and dam, NO ONE ELSE.

Unfortunately there are 4 different markets today

1. the showline people
2. the Schutzhund people
3. the Police
4. the pet people

In my honest opinion everybody who breeds for only one special market does wrong.
DIVERSITY of the German Shepherd in its origin means breeding ONE breed suitable for all.
This breed wasn´t bred to be the best in ANYTHING, but to be good in EVERYTHING.

As soon as a breeder breeds for a single market and not for the breed, he is doing wrong, and I really don´t care, if it´s a show- or workingline breeder.

Excellent post Susie...................

i agree susie................good post

"This breed wasn´t bred to be the best in ANYTHING, but to be good in EVERYTHING."

@ Susie 

I don't believe anyone could have said it any better.

Susie: In my honest opinion everybody who breeds for only one special market does wrong.
DIVERSITY of the German Shepherd in its origin means breeding ONE breed suitable for all.
This breed wasn´t bred to be the best in ANYTHING, but to be good in EVERYTHING.

I agree with most of what you have written but based on the above, what is the solution ?  Several of the "lines" have gotten specialized to the point where versatility (ability to do a variety of things really well) has gotten trumped in favor of being really good at one thing and one thing alone.  There are still quite a few Working Line breeders breeding for versatility (thank goodness !) and I personally will stick with them (voting for their breeding decision, with my pocketbook).

I absolutely abhor the "lines" that are produced purely for show, and are worthless for anything else, which is the exact antithesis of why this breed was created in the first place and an indication of how it is being ruined.  They are the ones that should be removed totally from the GSD gene-pool, IMHO, and hopefully the wider public will also realize how hollow those "lines" are, and move away from them.....and take away the oxygen (the money) that keeps them going.

Susie and all friends, just for the sake of shedding more light on diversity, I confess Susie made an excellent post and true concept which by the way was also made by several of the knowledgeable members on this forum some time ago, so what I will say is not meant for arguing, but just some thoughts I have at the moment:

Diversity of the breed

Please note that we say diversity of the breed as a whole and not diversity of each single dog from the breed. So we should keep the breed itself diverse, meaning breed should remain capable of doing various jobs/tasks, if you're looking for a police dog you can buy it from Gustav, Prager and the alike, if you're looking for a sport dog you can buy it from Red Sable, if you're looking for a show dog you can buy it from Sitasmom, if you're looking for a herding dog you can buy it from Kirschental, if you are looking for a SEAL dog you can buy it from Joanro, if you're looking for a pet you can buy it from Ibrahim and so on. So diversity in the breed is there. At the same time one can buy a show which can protect and a work which has good conformation, you can buy a high prey dog or a high defense dog, you can buy a short coat or a long coat, you can buy a sable, black, black/tan or a bi-color, you can even buy a show/work dog which has good qualities from both lines, you can buy a west/east dog and so on, what more diversity in the breed do you want more than that !!!!!!!, all the above are GSDs who share same genes, same history, same origin and same general look and build. We can even shape the structure/temperament as we wish through selective breeding, Prager can solidify or bring a certain trait of old dogs of his line in a few generations of selective breeding or put a certain trait further back and hide it, what else do you want from the breed?!!!!!!!!! Isn't this diversity enough for you in the breed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know what your priorities are and what your needs are and there is a GSD there which will meet them perfectly whether pet, companion, sport, protection, SAR, herding............., that is diversity in the breed. 

Names used above are only to highlight the idea, it does not mean RED SABLE is a breeder or one who produces sport dogs. Once again that is only meant as an opponent thought for consideration/re-eavaluation 

I think what we are talking about is versatility in individual dogs and not across the breed as a whole.  Every GSD individual being versatile/intelligent/adaptable enough to be good at ANY task that a dog is expected to do.....as long as the training provided is appropriate to the task.  Members of the same litter functioning as police dogs, seeing eye dogs, military dogs and as home companions, via specialized training for the task than picking individuals from a "line" that can only do a specialized task.  Huge difference here.

Having specialized members across the breed as Ibrahim mentioned in the post above this (as the breed has degenerated into, in the current context) is the complete anti-thesis of the above.  You have GSDs that are frenetic and unable to settle down, you have other GSDs that have hair-trigger temperaments, you have certain other GSDs that are good-for-nothing other than looking pretty and prancing around a show-ring and so on.......very few having the true versatility to function in ANY task that a dog can do, based on the need and training provided.

In the past, GSD had this versatility, where you had members from the same litter, capable of the versatility that enabled them to operate across a wide swathe of tasks,  which was lost via specialized breeding and now GSD usage is waning in various spheres where dogs are used, due to this very reason.  Now trying to cross a GSD from a specific "line" (say a German Showline)  to a different "line" (say a Czech working line) is literally a full-out-cross, like crossing a Doberman and a Rottweiler, just that they all happened to be tagged as GSDs.