This is a placeholder text
Group text
by hexe on 16 September 2012 - 02:09
Blitzen, certainly, the hips should be checked regardless; but I've not seen a dog hold a leg up due to dysplasia. Not saying it isn't possible, just that it's not as likely as a stifle injury. Of course, there's also the possiblity that a stifle injury happened because the dog was having discomfort in one or both hips...
by Swifteagle on 16 September 2012 - 04:09
@Hexe
What you have described sounds like it.. it seems that the leg just bearly kisses the ground, So I think you are on the money with that description. This means that eldee was on the money too.
The quesion is, where to from here? He is very high drive dog, I am not really sure when or how he manage to get injured in the first place.
Would he be in pain? can he get better? What do I do with him?
Guys thank you for helping me out here as I had no clue what was wrong with him.
What you have described sounds like it.. it seems that the leg just bearly kisses the ground, So I think you are on the money with that description. This means that eldee was on the money too.
The quesion is, where to from here? He is very high drive dog, I am not really sure when or how he manage to get injured in the first place.
Would he be in pain? can he get better? What do I do with him?
Guys thank you for helping me out here as I had no clue what was wrong with him.
by hexe on 16 September 2012 - 05:09
Well, like I said to Blitzen--not knowing what the status of his hips are, it is entirely possible that he may have done some injury to the stifle in an attempt to alter his gait because of pain in the hip area, so the next thing I'd do with him would be to have the hips looked at. Even if you don't have them sent to OFA, it's best to know what you're dealing with so you can manage the dog according to what his body needs. Regardless of whether his hips are good or not, you'll want to keep him lean and well-conditioned, since he's clearly showing you he has reason to favor the affected leg and he doesn't need added weight putting more stress on all of his joints.
The dog's stifle is the equivalent to our knee--and I'm sure you're familiar with the problems that joint causes in humans, both athletes and non-athletes. That also gives you an idea as to whether your dog is in pain or not--at best, there's some degree of discomfort, and at worst, he's already experiencing arthritis pain in the joint of the affected leg. He may need to be placed on pain control medications at some point as a result of the damage to the stifle.
How would he have injured his stifle? Could have been in trying to modify his movement because his hips bothered him; if his hips are sound, then that's one thing you'll be able to rule out, and won't have to add to your management plans. A very common way dogs injure their stifles is when they make sharp turns while traveling at high speeds--especially if they do so on wet or even just damp grass, where the traction is poor. Another common cause of stifle injury is rough play between dogs, where one dog body-slams another at just the right angle to cause a torquing effect on the joint; tends to happen in cases where the dog being body-slammed isn't expecting the impact because they're attention is elsewhere, or they aren't familiar with that type of play. If you're not present and directly watching at the time such an injury occurs, you may never know when it happened, especially when it's only a partial injury to the ligament, and especially with high-drive, really stoic dogs.
Keeping the dog well-muscled through controlled exercise that does not involve sharp turns, such as swimming, on-leash walking up and down hills or in soft sand; managing his play time, both alone and with other dogs so there's not additional injury to the *good* stifle. There is the option of surgically repairing the stifle, with several different styles of repair available, but it is important to remember that unless the owner commits to following the post-surgical rehabilitiation work to the letter, the surgery is likely to fail AND there will be an increased risk of damaging the opposite leg.
The dog's stifle is the equivalent to our knee--and I'm sure you're familiar with the problems that joint causes in humans, both athletes and non-athletes. That also gives you an idea as to whether your dog is in pain or not--at best, there's some degree of discomfort, and at worst, he's already experiencing arthritis pain in the joint of the affected leg. He may need to be placed on pain control medications at some point as a result of the damage to the stifle.
How would he have injured his stifle? Could have been in trying to modify his movement because his hips bothered him; if his hips are sound, then that's one thing you'll be able to rule out, and won't have to add to your management plans. A very common way dogs injure their stifles is when they make sharp turns while traveling at high speeds--especially if they do so on wet or even just damp grass, where the traction is poor. Another common cause of stifle injury is rough play between dogs, where one dog body-slams another at just the right angle to cause a torquing effect on the joint; tends to happen in cases where the dog being body-slammed isn't expecting the impact because they're attention is elsewhere, or they aren't familiar with that type of play. If you're not present and directly watching at the time such an injury occurs, you may never know when it happened, especially when it's only a partial injury to the ligament, and especially with high-drive, really stoic dogs.
Keeping the dog well-muscled through controlled exercise that does not involve sharp turns, such as swimming, on-leash walking up and down hills or in soft sand; managing his play time, both alone and with other dogs so there's not additional injury to the *good* stifle. There is the option of surgically repairing the stifle, with several different styles of repair available, but it is important to remember that unless the owner commits to following the post-surgical rehabilitiation work to the letter, the surgery is likely to fail AND there will be an increased risk of damaging the opposite leg.
by Swifteagle on 16 September 2012 - 06:09
@Hexe
Wow once again thank you so much for the info...
Even though I do not know the conditions of his hips, I havent noticed any weird movements coming from the hips so I hope they are okay, I will have to get him xrayed.
You seem to know your stuff, My dog is very very fast and when I get him to fetch a ball he goes gives it his all and he does very sharp turns to get it. I have to stop that I cant afford him to get worse. I guess this could be one of the reasons for it.
Can this heal by it self? Could a chiropractor be of any used? I have a chiro around me that has very good reputation....
Hexe once again thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me.
Wow once again thank you so much for the info...
Even though I do not know the conditions of his hips, I havent noticed any weird movements coming from the hips so I hope they are okay, I will have to get him xrayed.
You seem to know your stuff, My dog is very very fast and when I get him to fetch a ball he goes gives it his all and he does very sharp turns to get it. I have to stop that I cant afford him to get worse. I guess this could be one of the reasons for it.
Can this heal by it self? Could a chiropractor be of any used? I have a chiro around me that has very good reputation....
Hexe once again thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me.
by Eldee on 16 September 2012 - 12:09
Maya my girl, is an extreme ball chaser. She did hers on our hill when I threw the ball up and she jumped in the air and landed wrong. Damn balls!!!
There are two things you can do at this point.
1. Take the dog to the vet. The vet will x-ray it and if there is a tear, depending on how severe, will either recommend surgery or complete rest and leashed for about a month.
I have lived through two of these tears with both my shepherds and now Maya. Either I have the worst luck in the world or this is a very common injury in dogs.
I have read and read on the treatments for this. There is no guarantee the surgery will work. In fact there is no difference within a year for dogs that have had the surgery or not. What does make the difference however, is how you manage it. Most people do not have the will or the patience to leash the dog and no playing for months. If you were to treat the dog from here on in, like you had the surgery, then you would be forced to leash and crate for months, then your dog would heal just as well as if you had the surgery and leashed and crated. I hope you see what I am trying to say here.
Try for the next month leashing, no running, no stairs and crate keeping the weight down and it will eventually heal on its own, but you must be careful for a long time because where there was a slight tear and healing it is now prone to tearing.
In a human, when we tear a ligament the healing process takes months and months. It is the same as a dog. Months and months of recovery to give the tear a chance to heal.
I am only speaking from experience. I am not a vet, but I feel with 40 years of owning dogs I could be. ( just kidding !!) But your tear does not sound too bad yet so you may be able to heal it without surgery if you leash your dog. Believe me, with a high drive dog you will go absolutely nuts but it needs to heal.
There are two things you can do at this point.
1. Take the dog to the vet. The vet will x-ray it and if there is a tear, depending on how severe, will either recommend surgery or complete rest and leashed for about a month.
I have lived through two of these tears with both my shepherds and now Maya. Either I have the worst luck in the world or this is a very common injury in dogs.
I have read and read on the treatments for this. There is no guarantee the surgery will work. In fact there is no difference within a year for dogs that have had the surgery or not. What does make the difference however, is how you manage it. Most people do not have the will or the patience to leash the dog and no playing for months. If you were to treat the dog from here on in, like you had the surgery, then you would be forced to leash and crate for months, then your dog would heal just as well as if you had the surgery and leashed and crated. I hope you see what I am trying to say here.
Try for the next month leashing, no running, no stairs and crate keeping the weight down and it will eventually heal on its own, but you must be careful for a long time because where there was a slight tear and healing it is now prone to tearing.
In a human, when we tear a ligament the healing process takes months and months. It is the same as a dog. Months and months of recovery to give the tear a chance to heal.
I am only speaking from experience. I am not a vet, but I feel with 40 years of owning dogs I could be. ( just kidding !!) But your tear does not sound too bad yet so you may be able to heal it without surgery if you leash your dog. Believe me, with a high drive dog you will go absolutely nuts but it needs to heal.
by Eldee on 16 September 2012 - 12:09
Maya my girl, is an extreme ball chaser. She did hers on our hill when I threw the ball up and she jumped in the air and landed wrong. Damn balls!!!
There are two things you can do at this point.
1. Take the dog to the vet. The vet will x-ray it and if there is a tear, depending on how severe, will either recommend surgery or complete rest and leashed for about a month.
I have lived through two of these tears with both my shepherds and now Maya. Either I have the worst luck in the world or this is a very common injury in dogs.
I have read and read on the treatments for this. There is no guarantee the surgery will work. In fact there is no difference within a year for dogs that have had the surgery or not. What does make the difference however, is how you manage it. Most people do not have the will or the patience to leash the dog and no playing for months. If you were to treat the dog from here on in, like you had the surgery, then you would be forced to leash and crate for months, then your dog would heal just as well as if you had the surgery and leashed and crated. I hope you see what I am trying to say here.
Try for the next month leashing, no running, no stairs and crate keeping the weight down and it will eventually heal on its own, but you must be careful for a long time because where there was a slight tear and healing it is now prone to tearing.
In a human, when we tear a ligament the healing process takes months and months. It is the same as a dog. Months and months of recovery to give the tear a chance to heal.
I am only speaking from experience. I am not a vet, but I feel with 40 years of owning dogs I could be. ( just kidding !!) But your tear does not sound too bad yet so you may be able to heal it without surgery if you leash your dog. Believe me, with a high drive dog you will go absolutely nuts but it needs to heal.
There are two things you can do at this point.
1. Take the dog to the vet. The vet will x-ray it and if there is a tear, depending on how severe, will either recommend surgery or complete rest and leashed for about a month.
I have lived through two of these tears with both my shepherds and now Maya. Either I have the worst luck in the world or this is a very common injury in dogs.
I have read and read on the treatments for this. There is no guarantee the surgery will work. In fact there is no difference within a year for dogs that have had the surgery or not. What does make the difference however, is how you manage it. Most people do not have the will or the patience to leash the dog and no playing for months. If you were to treat the dog from here on in, like you had the surgery, then you would be forced to leash and crate for months, then your dog would heal just as well as if you had the surgery and leashed and crated. I hope you see what I am trying to say here.
Try for the next month leashing, no running, no stairs and crate keeping the weight down and it will eventually heal on its own, but you must be careful for a long time because where there was a slight tear and healing it is now prone to tearing.
In a human, when we tear a ligament the healing process takes months and months. It is the same as a dog. Months and months of recovery to give the tear a chance to heal.
I am only speaking from experience. I am not a vet, but I feel with 40 years of owning dogs I could be. ( just kidding !!) But your tear does not sound too bad yet so you may be able to heal it without surgery if you leash your dog. Believe me, with a high drive dog you will go absolutely nuts but it needs to heal.
by hexe on 16 September 2012 - 18:09
Eldee, it IS a common injury, so it's not just you...it's our choice of dogs, in part--active, drivey dogs that like to chase things. Though it's also a common injury in not-so-drivey, not-so-active breeds like Mastiffs, too.
I have to admit that when it comes to having surgical intervention forpartial cruciate tears, I tend to lean more toward the treatment protocol of 'benign neglect'--meaning that instead of doing surgery, the owner instead keeps the dog's activity SEVERELY restricted, as in absolutely no running or jumping or wrestling with other dogs; dog has to be on-leash anytime it's out of the house to ensure that it doesn't do any running, etc. Restrict stair climbing to only what's absolutely necessary, and do all of this for AT LEAST 6 months from the time of the injury. If you can keep to that, the stifle won't be good as new--surgery or not, it will never be 'good as new' again--but it will heal well enough that the dog will have full use of it, save for a slight 'hitch' to the gait. For partial tears, surgery will give you the same result, for the most part, just a bit quicker and more expensively.
Complete tears of the ligament, OTOH, generally do need surgical repair. Still, it's always worth trying restriction of activity before opting for surgery...you can always choose the surgery route if the management becomes impossible or isn't sufficient.
I have to admit that when it comes to having surgical intervention forpartial cruciate tears, I tend to lean more toward the treatment protocol of 'benign neglect'--meaning that instead of doing surgery, the owner instead keeps the dog's activity SEVERELY restricted, as in absolutely no running or jumping or wrestling with other dogs; dog has to be on-leash anytime it's out of the house to ensure that it doesn't do any running, etc. Restrict stair climbing to only what's absolutely necessary, and do all of this for AT LEAST 6 months from the time of the injury. If you can keep to that, the stifle won't be good as new--surgery or not, it will never be 'good as new' again--but it will heal well enough that the dog will have full use of it, save for a slight 'hitch' to the gait. For partial tears, surgery will give you the same result, for the most part, just a bit quicker and more expensively.
Complete tears of the ligament, OTOH, generally do need surgical repair. Still, it's always worth trying restriction of activity before opting for surgery...you can always choose the surgery route if the management becomes impossible or isn't sufficient.
by bluetick donna on 25 September 2012 - 19:09
Where you state your dog does not appear to be in pain it could be a neurological problem stemming from a spinal injury at the nerve root which runs to this leg. This would slow at a faster gait, but not always at a slower pace. A MRI of the lumbar region will show this clearly.
I did also have a racing greyhound pup which did this. The vet could'nt find the problem initially. Then he found a bone infection. I am not an expert with injuries in GSD training related injuries, only have a trainer's licence for racing greyhounds.
Only two of many possible problems. Good luck.
I did also have a racing greyhound pup which did this. The vet could'nt find the problem initially. Then he found a bone infection. I am not an expert with injuries in GSD training related injuries, only have a trainer's licence for racing greyhounds.
Only two of many possible problems. Good luck.
by Eldee on 27 September 2012 - 01:09
Maya has been leashed for three weeks now. No ball chasing or silliness allowed. She is now allowed to run off leash but no playing with other dogs. She is running around now just fine. Now this is the test. Can I continue her therapy for another two or three months. I know I can because I have been through this before and learned my lesson. It takes a really long time to heal so we won't be playing ball for months.
By spring next year, we will try again.
By spring next year, we will try again.
by hexe on 27 September 2012 - 03:09
Eldee, you have my sincere admiration for sticking to the restricted exercise for Maya, because it really IS tough to hold that line...but it's worth it if your dog doesn't have to undergo surgery. Gets REALLY tempting to just let them out on their own when it's pouring rain and you're running a bit behind schedule, so that extra 10-15 minutes of walking around outside with the dog on lead doesn't appeal at all, doesn't it? I must admit that I cheat a bit in that respect--I use a 50 foot long-line and stand inside the garage instead of actually going out into the rain on such days. Works nicely!
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top