INCOMPETENT AND POOR JUDGING - Page 2

Haven't been to a show for over a year nothing has changed if you dont win you have to have a moan. But I think you have got it wrong. Its like the pot calling the kettle black. You can show and win under your cronnies ie Terry Hannan, Paul Bradley and no doubt in the near future Joe Summerhill and win. Thats acceptable YES? So why critize others for doing the same? The dog judge did quite a good job considering what she had in the classes. The dog tipped to win backed off and its placing reflected that. Very mixed bunch of animals in most classes, some overweight, some to thin and weather conditions underfoot were awful. Just because they serve on the same committee does not mean they can't put the best animal up from what was there. Have you not served on a committee and been put up by another committee member? The bitch judge was a bit more blatant because there were much better females in her classes than the overall winner. At least the dog judge had the courage of her convictions and called the referee in.

Blerio, that experience that I quoted happened at a time when I had only been in the breed for a few months. It could never happen again.

The thing that amazes me most is that everyone in the show scene know who the culprits are and, yet, they still enter under these people with the same results but never speak out. I also think that it is a bit naïve to think that these problems will be addressed in Committee Meetings when many committees do not even tell the members what is going on. Why is the League not taking this up. They are the leading club but who is leading. Sadly, until a few good people, who really know what they are doing, come forward and give the breed the lead out that it needs then nothing will change.

Jaymesie makes the point about visiting judges. About two years ago a German judge that I know very well spoke to me about a certain person and their dog. I gave a non committal answer and said that he would have to call it as he sees it on the day. He was not best pleased with my answer, however, it came as no surprise to me to see that the person mentioned and their dog received top honours a few months later.

The KC All Rounders are equally to blame for the promotion of animals to the benefit of certain people. I have experienced this too.

Mackenzie

 

Wasn't going to comment on this but I was at this show as a spectator, my opinion on the judging for what it was worth,

Dog judge, had some decent dogs entered, gave the impression she didnt know what on earth she was doing, had 2 or 3 in classes and had to keep checking her notes all the time, had no control or method to judging,  whether she was dishonest when it came to top awards I

sorry pressed end button too soon.

whether she was dishonest when it came to top awards I dont know but certainly the best 2 dogs didnt win at the end of the day.


Bitch judge, some super females, nice line up, obviously has a good eye for a dog but unfortunately was blatently favouring certain kennels, bitch cc was nice, very nice but maybe not the best female there and the reserve, well not sure where she came from except I guess they are friends.  Not judges I would enter under but I am sure they will get more judging appointments and put up their friends again, exhibitors need to vote with their feet and stay at home in future.

This is for David and Rhoda -  surely there is a point, in that whether you are well-placed or not, whether the judging is crooked or incompetant or not, some of us who are interested  spectators (as often as we can be) and actually interested in the breed and like to see good specimens would actually like to see Videx dogs (and from other kennels who also seem close to giving up on showing) out there, where we can learn, and compare them for our own interest, & to be able to help people looking for studs, puppies, etc -  a function that Shows have always had ?   Other than being timewasters and booking in to see kennels' dogs individually, when having no intention of buying ?  I know its getting more expensive by the minute - but please don't stop.
Linda Swift.

Linda Swift: I am fully aware that our Shows should be a "window on our breed" for the many reasons you mention. Unfortunately for Videx to support a show with an entry and even win a class or two, we then have to frequently witness other outstanding dogs "just missing out" on the BIG PRIZE - The CC going to a "CONNECTION". It makes us very angry that we gave the Judge an entry, which indicated support for the Judge. WIN or LOSE with my own dogs is NOT what makes me assess a JUDGE. What they do with the BIG PRIZE is the major indicator of what the Judge is up to.

Our Shows are a window on JUDGES, and I am appalled at what I am witnessing. The future is very bleak indeed.

I would like to see published a 5 & 10 year list of ALL CC winners - The names of the Judges and the names of the CC winners.

This in itself would reveal "many connections" - some would reveal an incredible list of CC's to the same Kennel from the same Judge.

If it's any consolation, it happens in the US at AKC shows all the time too. At a recent specialty weekend the Best Puppy in Show on Friday was 4th out of 4 on Sunday and most of the other results were as contradictory. Go figure.......

I think the good breeders here recognize  the best dogs in the ring, they don't depend on the judges to tell them. I suspect it's the same in the UK.

 

I was at this show n yes the conditions underfoot were very bad,BUT thses conditions are NOT unusual for our breed or handlers to contend with.I,m of the same opinion as Bill re the judging of the males.I  have shown twice before under this lady with Chiki,the 1st time as a junior when she was pulled out 3rd,moved up to 1st place ,then demoted to 2nd(female moved up to 1st handled by a well known person to her)Accepted this with good grace as thought maybe chiki,s shape not as pleasing to her as the other bitch.On reading the critique in dog paper,she commented 1st placed bitch won on her MOVEMENT!!!!!!UHHH ,She didnt move us again after demoting chiki from her 1st place to 2nd so how can she say that.The 2nd time i thought the judging was very blantantly facey.Now to the bitches,yes i was entered in vet.bitch but chiki didnt go.I found the bitch judging more consistant,n thought her placings were about right.IMHO.The quality wasnt there in either classes.Yes there were some quality animals there,some did win,some didnt.Its all well saying vote with your feet n stay at home Mackenzie but IMO.i wouldnt go to ANY SHOWS then.I think nearly all shows are facey,to a point.Maybe its about time club committee members are NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER THEIR OWN SHOWS ,nor handle others dogs n relatives of the judges also refrain from handling.David,i luv.the 4 siblings u had at the pup/young dog event n hiya to mackenzie,hope u n the missus are keeping well.Carole Spelman Rheinmeister gsds.

Madwoman, I take it that you were at the show! I've never shown under the judges you named for years, never shown under a fellow committee member, or close friends, or people I've had dogs in parnership, or sold to. And NO it's not acceptable, so kettle and black dont come into it. I've been told that I'm crazy for not showing under close friends, and 2 judges have asked me to enter under them this year,but I didn't. You say the judge did a good job!!! did you watch the open class, I felt embarrassed for her, she was totally lost, even the handlers were confused. I dont think exhibiters mind being beaten by better dogs, thats not the issue. I dont know what was tipped to win! but you probably got that wrong. I criticize every one who shows under judges for the wrong reason, 2 wrongs will never make a right.
 

David, I reckon Carole is right;  since these problems seem so prevalent, if everyone who prefers to have some cast-iron guarantee that the judging won't be 'useless' - let alone facey or you-scratch-my-back etc - just stops going, we'll soon have hardly anyone attending Shows at all.  I know there is a bit of resistance to the very thought that this sort of judging is happening;  but I've been hearing about it for a long time now (and thats not just in our breed) - and 'theres no smoke without fire' - so what can we do to come up with concrete ways to tackle it ? Ideas ?  It does not appear, to me, to break into nice easily separateable chunks where eg it happens at some sorts of show and not others - if it was just the difference between, say, Breed Club / specialist shows being ok, but all-breeds Canine Society shows being always where it happens, then it might be easier to tackle ? Or should we just say Okay, let Showing die a death, leave it to the swappsies crowd to have all Shows all to themselves, for as little time as they would, financially, have left ?  Would that really be what you'd want to see happen ?   I know I don't have a magic answer either, but surely we don't want to just complain without putting up any ideas for alternative solutions ? (I guess 'the likes of me'  look to 'the likes of you' for suggested answers to problems, 'cos you have the experience and the contacts ... sorry that sounds awfully 'crawly', but I'd guess you'll get what I mean).