First post - members' experience needed - Page 2

It sure does sound like a heart problem, possibly a valve issue. My last GSD had mitral valve prolapse late in life (it was probably there all along, but wasn't detectable) and your dog's symptoms sound a lot like what my boy experienced, but he would pass out. He would tired easily and suddenly collapse. Did you take her to a cardiologist?

Thank you again for replying... 

Just from previous observation, Abi's gums go dark / bluish when she's having one of these episodes and it can take up to an hour for her to fully recover.  Whilst she sort of collapses, she is still alert and responsive and will get up and follow me to another room and resume her 'collapse' position.  Her appetite remains good and she hasn't ever had any injuries or trauma.  Neither does she have a cough.  I will attempt to video her play and reaction tomorrow and hope to have this on You Tube by Monday.  I'm not sure whether this is at all relevant, but she was spayed in June and it has been since then that the problem has occured.  The vet told me that the ECG was done whilst Abi was conscious, but rested, then she was knocked out for the chest xray.  The vet advised that I should monitor her now we are entering Autumn with lower pollen levels and that if the problem persists, she will need to be referred to a cardiologist.  

(edit)... just an after-thought, but probably doesn't really add any value... I have a short video of Abi having a moderate run about in the garden in June (before the problem started).  To me, she appears quite healthy, not breathless... ?normal weight:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcQgl5SS9pE

Having never owned a dog before, I am feeling a little lost... so I just wanted to say how much I have appreciated the responses.

Kaz

kazUK,
First look for the simple answers, like say ......I exercised my dog for way too long in this hot summer weather!

Or.....it could be more serious like........http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Induced_Collapse 

Thank you Mirasmom... I have just looked at the link.  It is so hard to describe Abi's 'collapse'... her limbs don't appear to be affected at all... it is just the hyperventilating and what appears to be a rapid heart beat.  What is worrying is that she gets into that state after just a few minutes of chasing her ball.  She can walk for miles and not be breathless.  Bless her... she absolutely loves ball games and will lay down in the middle of playing in an attempt to recover as she wants the games to continue and not to be taken back to the house.

Abi is a beautiful girl, and she lives in paradise!

Lucky girl!!!!!

Hope you get to the bottom of this!

Could be a number of issues.  One could be borderline or subclinical aortic arch stenosis which is a slight narrowing of an aorta that connects to the heart.  If it is prominant most vets can hear the blood sounds with a stethoscope (it is easier with an amplified stethoscope). It can show up as the dog ages, during exertion or especially on hot days. Thyroid irregularities can cause weakness, as can mild subclinical EPI (dog would have light colored soft or loose stool, be thinner than normal and be hungry most of the time with subclinical EPI). I once had a female with a slight heart irregularity which showed up on an EKG (my vet transmitted the EKG via phone modem to an expert who did the diagnoses--and my vet said he only suspected a slight irregularity when it was a serious issue).   This caused some weakness issues and lack of stamina, as can occur with aortic arch stenosis or any type of cardiac electrical irregularity. Aortic arch stenosis is common in GSDs in subclinical form and usually shows up when the dogs get older and are hot and have exercised a fair amount.  Then some collapse or become noticeably weak.

You need a very good vet and it may be a "trial by error" diagnostic procedure where additional tests are run according to  diagnostic possibilities.  A dog may be clear of heartworm but still have a case of anaplasmosis or erlichia, or other types of tick born spirochetes such as lymes whicg are not always easy to diagnose.  The newer heart worm test can test for anaplasmosis, lyme and erlichiosis also.  I had a GSD with anaplasmosis which responded imediately to doxycycline and was back to normal soon.

One other possibility is inflammation or infection to a heart valve related to gum disease so have your vet look at the teeth/gums.  There is no substitute for 30 channel blood chemistries either. Good luck.  Stay with it and you will get the answers you need.  Most habitual dog owners have to go through this at one time or another so hang in there and you can work things out.


 

  double posted  ooops

The symptoms in human children or young adults, which this dog is a teen, in dog years, are the same.

 

Signs and Symptoms of Interrupted Aortic Arch With Ventricular Septal Defect

Signs and symptoms of poor perfusion or congestive heart failure may develop when the ductus arteriosus begins to close, usually within the first day or two of life.

The infant may develop weakness, fatigue, poor feeding, rapid breathing, fast heart rate, or low oxygen levels, particularly when measured in the legs and feet.

This condition can worsen and lead to shock. The infant will then be pale, mottled, and cool. The infant will likely have decreased urine output and poor pulses, especially in the lower extremities.

Which is what your dog is indicating..she weakens in her legs and has to just flop down..


yr

  I agree with  Preston , as it idicates a temporary blockage when the blood supply is needed with the most oxygen at that given time.

   THE disease he mentions  aortic arch stenosis   does this. HAVE a vet at a Vetinirian college get involved with this.>They can test her right there in an open lab where they can play ball and test her with machines and find the problem..

Make some calls to your closest Vet Colleges and make an appointment.. YOU may need a vet to get you in the door..ASK

IT acts just like the human heart passage does that is blocked partly but when stress is applied it does its damage to cut off the oxygen..Light headed ness probably causes her to just flop down.

She cannot talk and say"OH my I am lightheaded and got to sit down..".

Also it was stated in the articles , that children with  MILD aortic arch stenosis sometimes live with no symptoms and are healthy for a long time.

THEN the body grows and changes cause it to start progressing or is found by tests of todays miracle medical teams.

Dogs heart works the same way



YR

Okay, girl is 22 months old. Symptoms only started (for the first time) in June. In all honesty, could be medical? Environmental? Alot of possibilities. I tend to lean to the power of deduction and keeping a close tab on things in my world and yes, at times it's best to bring in the experts.

Depending on when June was in this 22 months I would continue with vets if money/time permits but I se alot of plants on the property. I would think Abi has run/exerted herself hard numerous times throughout her puppy/young adult life with no problems? 2nd video confirmed that. Problem arose in June; What happened in June that wasn't there/didn't happen the previous ??? months? Was something newly planted or did something come out at that time? Did something happen to Abi? Did something change within the house? Remodel/repairs? 

What time of the year, (if it was there I didn't see it) was the second video where Abi was playing?

I run, train and play with my dogs hard. They pant like that and at times worse. Panting is their natural way to cool down. Harder exertion equals faster panting. The only thing I would question is the 4 or 5 licks. They weren't the licks as if "I'm licking all the drool/slobbering from a hard workout" or "I'm so hot I'm drooling all over" licks. But licks like something is stuck there, bad taste or super dry mouth.

Now when you say "collapse"? Are you saying she drops as if her legs were taken out from beneath her? Or she lays down heavily? And you stated she gets up, goes to another room and then does it?

If time/money allows I would still see specialists. But I would start with a log/diary and keep track of everything. Activity, length, time of day, month. When your flowers/plants die or season is over I would see if her symptoms are still there.     

Everybody has given you great advice here, but I have a question, have you taken her temp when she does this? She looks like she may be overheating, what was the weather/temperature the first time she did this - I know you mentioned summer?