Seiger show again..what is going on?? - Page 2

Come on now, arched backs has its own thread, lol.

Ibrahim

 

(I aplogize ahead of time for all the smiley faces but they are so cute!! hehehe)

This is called "double handling" and it is allowed in the German Show in the SV or under SV rules (WDA and USA in the US etc.).  Double handling is NOT allowed in AKC and is specifically forbidden in the Obedience rules. 

What you want the ring trained dog to do is pull and gait and look sharp.  It allows the judge to see the drive from behind and whether or not the dog has a correct gait.  The handler in the ring has the job of keeping the dog moving and in line and the owner is outside the ring.  The dog is looking for the owner and this gets them alert and wanting to go!

I can tell you that the dogs in the ring are LOOKING for their owner and the owner calls and then steps out of sight.. the dog remains alert and looking for them.. and at a signal from the handler will call the dog or perform other antics (squeaky toys and so forth) to get the dog looking for them.. pulling to get to them... then the owner steps back again until the handler signals again. 

Some dogs need the owner out if front running and getting the dog's attention.  Other dogs need to hear their name and nothing more. 

Hi Smiley:

I was also shocked the first time I saw the antics outside of the ring at an AKC Specialty Show .  After awhile it became quite comical watching all the players inside and outside of the ring.   I did find it took the focus off the dog though.


Rass:

About 15 yrs ago, I was at an AKC GSD Specialty Show and everyone was double handling.  It was explained to me by a very well known breeder/judger that double handling was allowed at the GSD Specialty Shows.  I was really flabbergasted when a very well known handler, who was in the breed ring, started yelling and swearing at his client dog's owner  while the owner was outside of the ring!  The judge saw and heard all of this and turned a deaf ear.  I have been in the ring a zillion times with other breeds, both at all-breed shows and specialty shows, and had never seen anything like what I saw at the GSD Specialty show.  Is double handling allowed at the AKC GSD Specialty Shows?

Cassandra

Thanks, Rass for the explanation!  It just doesn't seem necessary to me. What a waste of energy!  Just let the dogs show themselves for pete's sake!!  But, I am still learning about the different Geramn show style and the Schutzhund events.

Cassandra..yes, the whole show scene seems to be very....unusual.... shall we say!!

I have not been to a GSDCA Specialty show so I can't comment. I have only been to AKC All-breed and UKC shows. But, I have never seen this double handling stuff.

I went to UKC shows and really liked them!! There was no "double handling". The dogs were shown pretty naturally with no exaggerated stacks. Plus, no professional handlers were allowed. Because UKC, is a performance oriented registry...the judges were selecting working type of dogs as they really believe in the "Total Dog" concept. The emphasis is really put on THE DOGS!!  Interestingly, all the UKC shows I went too had GWL dogs win Championships over ASL Champion dogs!  Anyway...

This is from their website:

• Relaxed, Fun, Family-oriented atmosphere!
• No Professional Handlers! Professional handlers can only participate in UKC Conformation events with dogs that they own!
• Most clubs accept Day of Show entries! Miss the pre-entry deadline? No problem, for a slight fee increase, you can enter during the Day of Show entry time!
• No Grooming products on the dogs. A bath and some trimming, when necessary, is all that is required to show in these rings.
• No Grooming tools in the ring! Yep, that means leave the comb and spray bottle on the other side of the gate.
• Not every Judge allows Bait. If your Judge does allow bait you will want to make sure that you don’t throw the bait!! Littering in the Ring is a big no-no!
• All Beginner and Seasoned exhibitors welcome! This includes Juniors!

Morning,Smiley have had a good laugh at your observations(meant in a nice way)Its good to hear other ppls.views on the german style of showing.I have been showing gsds since 1987 n much prefer the old style of showing with the dog either running alongside or in front of the handler on a loose lead but NOT PULLING EXCESSIVELY INTO THE LEAD,as IMHO.this gives a false impression of both shape n soundness.Too much pulling makes the dogs dig in at the front,making the topline look extreme n roached(arched)n the digging in at the rear end makes the hocks go every which way,making them look unsound.ALL UK KC shows both all breed n breed club,both champ.n open forbid double handling(altho.in years gone by)the germanic fraternity turned a blind eye n gsd exhibitors were hated by the other breed exhibitors.Last year our KC took a stand and all champ.shows had to sign an agreement to stop this otherwise our Challenge Certs.(need 3 under seperate judges to become a champion)would be taken away.Thats why the german fraternity now have regional shows n a sieger show each year.The gsd league of grt.britain also started these shows as our KC dont refuse to register puppies from gsds that have failed or havent been tested for our heriditary diseases such as hd/ed/jrd/pd/dm.This was the major issue we had with our KC n NOT  the issue with double handling.Have a good day.Carole S.

Carole,

Well, at least I made you laugh a llittle! That's always a great way to start the day!!!

Your comments were very interesting! So, this double handling sounds, relatively, new.  I agree with you that the methods you mentioned of running alongside handler or in front on a loose lead would seem to be a more beneficial way to judge movement.

I am thinking (but have no real idea, of course) that I bet one show person had an owner do the double handle thing and the dog won.  So, other people probably started doing it too and it just took off from there.

I have been following some stuff about the English kennel Club. I saw a video where they were saying the dogs that showed in the British ring looked like frogs. Unfortunately, they kind of did look like that too. I think they looked much worse than in America.   Our extreme dogs are called specialty dogs (and they look pretty gross too) but the ones who show All-breed do not look that extreme. It is all Very sad.

So, I guess it's not a bad thing to have separate Regional shows in England.  But, don't you wish you could combine the two to have the perfect show venue that would be the best for the dogs?

Here in my country (USA), the AKC also registers dogs and does not care about health or antyhing. I know the GSDCA (german shepherd dog club of america) created a title called Award of Excellence that is the highest title a conformation show dog can obtain so it is very prestigious.  In order to get this title (which increases the breeding/sale value tremendously), the dog has to be a Champion and have been awarded a "Select" designation. Then, they must have passed OFA Hips and Elbows; passed a Temperament Test; and have a working title (schutzhund, tracking, obedience, agility, herding, or rally).  So, at least, it is something positive anyway. 

Smily,

AKC is an organization that registers many breed of dogs. They do not dictate which dogs can or cannot be bred. The management of each individual breed is left to the specific breed club. Ergo, the GSDCA has the power to revise the breed standard and to offer special awards like the AOE and performance awards they feel encourage responsible breeding They also advise their members on breed health concerns. The GSDCA decides which health checks are required for a GSD to earn a CHIC rating and they have a health committee that offers regular reports via The Review.  

 I don't know about you, but I would not want an AKC committee dictating which dogs I could or could not breed. 

It's not that the AKC doesn't care about canine health. Their Canine Health Foundation spends millions researching canine diseases at the request of breed clubs and other organizations. If you are interested in what they are doing, you can find it all on their website.

OH no Smiley,double handling in the UK has been going on in the germanic side of gsd showing before i started in 1987.Apparently a judge from Germany started it all off,but over the years it has got increasingly worse.First it was just name calling,keys jangling ,rattling tins with kibble in ,then came the frantic running around the rings,nearly knocking ppl.over.Some just used to plough thru.ppl.w/o a thought of wot injury they could cause.Since the KC intervention with the threat of withdrawing our Challenge certificates things have quietened down a bit at the general championship shows but it still goes on at breed club level to a small degree.I suppose it could be called cheating but WE ALL DID IT,so really its still a level playing field for us germanics.Lets face it,quite a few of the other breeds bait their dogs with titbits,so to me thats a kind of double handling n no one complains about that.Many exhibitors with the german line show gsds do,do both.Its really good sharing views with you,thank you.Carole.S.

Carole,

Thanks again for sharing your experience with me!!  I have really appreciated and enjoyed the discussion between us as well!!  It has been quite educational for me!!  Thanks again for your honesty and taking the time to post your thoughts....