Running the blinds in SchH.... question..

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by nugget on 25 February 2011 - 00:02

Hi:

If you want maximum points in blind search, dog must evidence that is what he is doing - searching blind. Dog should show visual attention to blind as he turns it.

BTW Dog must also show attention to handler (slight directional change is good) on here command and reaction to onward direction - and not merely run from blind to blind - whislt ideally retaining high tempo and drive.

Can be a lot of work for a few points is what some say to me; but a clean, fast, correct and controlled blind search, as the first exersise, can present a disproportionate picture in Judge's mind - they are only human after all.

Cheers Nugget

by GSDPACK on 25 February 2011 - 01:02

To me a dog that runs blinds dispite of the fact that the dog knows the helper is in the last one is a dud.. sorry... I dont like to make duds out of my dogs. Not fair. So I will take the extra time and explain the dog that this is work and search for a reason.. rather than take shortcuts and pray the dog doesnt brake because I taught him the helper is in the last blind over and over and over and crap only dud runs the blinds becasue daddy told him, a well trained dog runs the blind the owner directed him to for a search. in the trial day it happens to be a pattern of all three pairs in the row!
Now some will argue with me.. but oh well.. I dont like when somebody tells me my dog is a dud and should not be bred becasue he works instead of runs like a nucklehead! The ob part in this exercise is direction, search and precise work!..

oh well some of us do some of us like to take shortcuts right!..whatever it takes to get that darn title!

by animules on 25 February 2011 - 02:02

I thought it was going to be required the dog go completely around the blind now. Most judges critiques I have heard talk about if the dog "searched" the blind or not. Those dogs blasting around them often have not searched. However, an ear flick or look while they are passing is, the dogs doesn't need to slow way down doing so.

by Jyl on 25 February 2011 - 02:02

As an example of how I like to see the dogs search the blinds is Javir Talka Marda. This is at the BSP2009. He looks into every blind and also looks to his handler to be directed to each blind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dOzLybN06U

by Changer on 25 February 2011 - 03:02

Why does a dog have to be a dud if it looks in the blind even if the helper is in blind 6 on trial day? I teach my dog that even if he sees a helper step into blind 6 there could be another helper (or more) in another blind. That way it's worth his while to search every blind. I also work equally in all the other blinds, not just blind 6. Why make that one important if we actually want the dog to search the others? It's called training, not a dud dog.

by SportySchGuy on 25 February 2011 - 11:02

So the dog has to VISIBLY look into the blind? How do you know the dog cant see that there is no helper in the blind with his peripheral vision? Dogs use their nose as much or more than sight and they do not need to SEE if there is a helper in the blind or not because they will smell the helper and since they have to go around the blind wind direction will not be a factor. So again it is just a stupid formality. A dog does not have to look into a blind to search a blind and depending on conditions a dog does not have to go all the way around a blind to search a blind. So again I say blind run not blind search. It's an obed drill just like the track.

by GSDPACK on 25 February 2011 - 18:02

SSG that is exactly the point, you taught your dog that there is nobody in 5 blinds..so why in the world would your dog search them. I would not! The dog, not using any of his sences but memory! you taught te perticular dog, that in order to ger to the sleeve he has to run a pattern. The dog does exaclty that, runs a pattern, he doesn search for the guy becasue he doesnt have to, the dog knows exactly the game you play.

I have sometimes 6 people in blinds, no sleeve, just bark and hold and sometimes they get a bite on whichever person I choose (and the one that has some equipment like sleeve or suit)., Sometimes they get called out

Well I am done with this conversation. you do whatever you do, but if you ever want to compete and get maximum points the dog has to search. But you are right in a club level usually running is enough.

by SportySchGuy on 25 February 2011 - 18:02

Why would I want to get maximum points? I already said I view it as a pass fail event like it was meant to be. It is for overall evaluation of the dog. When you go for max points you overlook a lot of things that are beneficial outside the training field. My point is that if I want to teach my dog a search exercise then I would not do it the way it is required in sch which is silly (if you really wanted to teach a search) so I look at it like it is an obed "run" and not a "search". The search I will teach in a different manner. There is a method to the madness.

by ronin on 25 February 2011 - 18:02

I think the looking up into every blind is something of a trend in the sport, no different to those that train the long attack with a dog jumping over chair or something to gain height and th "WOW" off the th crowd. I think it looks great but Operational K9's rarely do this as the the consequences of missing are all to real.

I think most have hit the nail on the head by describing the searching as an obedience exercise deliberately designed to test a dog/handlers training and control in the heat of the moment; knowing the handler is always in the last hide actually makes it more challenging.

The way it was explained to me was the dog and handler are searching for Offenders, they know or believe the location of the one of them (last hide) yet methodically quarter the area between them and the last hide to ensure that if there is a second offender then no threat remains behind them; its an obedience test really. I know, I know , that Schutzhund is a sport etc but this is to put it in context.

Does a dog need to stare up into a small blind to see if someone is there, hardly. That said a few have mentioned good training practices in proofing the dog through it's search. Personally I would not want a dog running tight on a blind preferring the safe tactical distance, but we're splitting hairs for a sport.

Regards

Ronin

by charlie319 on 25 February 2011 - 21:02

One way to train around that is to put dud decoys in several of the other blinds. Particularly once the dog knows that only the guy with the sleeve gets to "play"... You could put items that will draw his attention and force him to look without triggering any further reaction and you can have the helper switch blinds randomly so the dog is not certain of anything. IMPO, the problem in that video was not the dog... It was the training.

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