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by missyfly96 on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
Not giving papers to a dog until it is spayed/neutered will not prevent people from saying "not my dog anymore".
Not giving full registration does not make them more responsible as a breeder the dog is more likely to end up homeless if it is limited registration and spayed/neutered.
Not giving full registration does not make them more responsible as a breeder the dog is more likely to end up homeless if it is limited registration and spayed/neutered.
by chase on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
missfly96
Why would a dog be more likely to end up homeless because it has limited registration paperwork and spayed/neutered? I would guess that at least 80% of people buying a dog are pet people and are not interested in having an intact dog. In my opinion, the reason many dogs are in shelters is because of owner ignorance and temperament problems due to poor breeding or poor upbringing - not whether or not they have full/limited registration paperwork.
Also, I truly don't understand your first statement: Not giving papers to a dog until it is spayed/neutered will not prevent people from saying "not my dog anymore".
Why would a dog be more likely to end up homeless because it has limited registration paperwork and spayed/neutered? I would guess that at least 80% of people buying a dog are pet people and are not interested in having an intact dog. In my opinion, the reason many dogs are in shelters is because of owner ignorance and temperament problems due to poor breeding or poor upbringing - not whether or not they have full/limited registration paperwork.
Also, I truly don't understand your first statement: Not giving papers to a dog until it is spayed/neutered will not prevent people from saying "not my dog anymore".
by chase on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
I believe the original posters point was that she sold the dog limited registration and the buyer went and registered the dog with another registry as full registration. The point being that the buyer bought the dog with limited - not full. If she/he wanted a dog with full registration why didn't they just buy one with those papers instead of being dishonest and re-registering the dog with another registry as full registration.
Maybe there was a real reason the dog was sold as a pet and not a breeder at that time? Breeders usually sell their dogs with full if they have the POTENTIAL as a breeding dog. Maybe this one didn't have that potential from the get go and now the buyer is going to do it anyway. Lucky for all of us!
Maybe there was a real reason the dog was sold as a pet and not a breeder at that time? Breeders usually sell their dogs with full if they have the POTENTIAL as a breeding dog. Maybe this one didn't have that potential from the get go and now the buyer is going to do it anyway. Lucky for all of us!
by missyfly96 on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
You are asking a buyer to decide at 8 weeks intentions with a dog they bought. I have full registration on my dog and she is just now 2 years old. When I first bought her I did not want to bred her. I've gone back and forth since then. Still have to see what her hips look like. That is my choice to make. I have the right to change my mind.
I think giving someone limited registration is saying your dogs are only pet quality and you don't want them bred.
That kinda devalues the dog in buyers minds. If people have to or want to give up their dog at some point, and your are saying as a breeder you have to be willing to take back any dog you bred, people would think it is only a pet quality dog. I don't think you find nearly as many fully registered, intact dogs at the shelter or giving back to breeders.
I was speaking of the owners that have to or want to give up their dogs "by saying it is not my dog anymore".
If people are buying a full registered dog it puts a higher value on the dog and people don't give them up as easily or at least rehome them in a responsible way. I think right at the get go you are saying this is just a pet and right away puts less value on the dog in the buyers mind. JMO
I think giving someone limited registration is saying your dogs are only pet quality and you don't want them bred.
That kinda devalues the dog in buyers minds. If people have to or want to give up their dog at some point, and your are saying as a breeder you have to be willing to take back any dog you bred, people would think it is only a pet quality dog. I don't think you find nearly as many fully registered, intact dogs at the shelter or giving back to breeders.
I was speaking of the owners that have to or want to give up their dogs "by saying it is not my dog anymore".
If people are buying a full registered dog it puts a higher value on the dog and people don't give them up as easily or at least rehome them in a responsible way. I think right at the get go you are saying this is just a pet and right away puts less value on the dog in the buyers mind. JMO
by chase on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
Again, I believe the point of the thread is someone being dishonest - not whether or not breeders should sell all their puppies with full registration or not. Maybe I missed the original poster's point.
by missyfly96 on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
As a puppy how do you determine if it pet quality or bred worthy quality. Maybe the buyers were inexperienced and have become educated since then, don't they have a right to decide when the dog matures? Unless there is a medical issue with the puppy I don't see how you would know.
by missyfly96 on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
I understand the buyers are being dishonested. But every breeder started somewhere. Maybe they were inexperience, took to the bred, educated themselves and want to get into breeding. Not every breeder started out with an expensive full grown, fully registered dog. I am just saying it is their decision.
by chase on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
And I'm saying then buy one with full registration. Don't be dishonest and change your registration to fit your needs after the fact.
If they educated themselves and suddenly feel the need to breed then they need to buy a dog with full registration - not "convert" one with limited reg they already have to full registration. Amazing how limited reg dogs suddenly become breed worthy because someone can't afford to "started out with an expensive full grown, fully registered dog".
If they educated themselves and suddenly feel the need to breed then they need to buy a dog with full registration - not "convert" one with limited reg they already have to full registration. Amazing how limited reg dogs suddenly become breed worthy because someone can't afford to "started out with an expensive full grown, fully registered dog".
by missyfly96 on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
You still have not answered my question, why do breeder sell limited registration dogs. Is that just saying all their dogs are pet quality they don't want bred. How can you as a breeder tell the potential of a dog at 8 weeks old. I am not saying they are right for changing the registration and being dishonest. I just think buyers have the right to change their mind whether or not they want to bred. It is obvious that you as a breeder can't control it so what is the point to limited registration?
by crhuerta on 12 October 2010 - 01:10
There are many considering factors that would/could differentiate a puppy's potential of "potential" breed worthiness and not.
If buyers "require" breeders to guarantee/warranty (or whatever you want to call it)...their puppies...
then the buyer is also "obligated" to adhere to the breeders stipulation in whether the puppy is "prohibited" from future breeding(s) or not.
Not all puppies are created equal...and therefore, are not/should not be used for future breeding prospects.
A responsible breeder does know which puppies from a litter, have the "potential" to contribute to someones breeding program....and which ones may/do not.
Just as a responsible buyer knows what their intentions are.. present & future, when deciding to purchase the puppy.
You can't have it "both" ways....
If a buyer decides in the future life of the puppy, to consider breeding...then they have the obligation to have the breeders permission...
JMO
If buyers "require" breeders to guarantee/warranty (or whatever you want to call it)...their puppies...
then the buyer is also "obligated" to adhere to the breeders stipulation in whether the puppy is "prohibited" from future breeding(s) or not.
Not all puppies are created equal...and therefore, are not/should not be used for future breeding prospects.
A responsible breeder does know which puppies from a litter, have the "potential" to contribute to someones breeding program....and which ones may/do not.
Just as a responsible buyer knows what their intentions are.. present & future, when deciding to purchase the puppy.
You can't have it "both" ways....
If a buyer decides in the future life of the puppy, to consider breeding...then they have the obligation to have the breeders permission...
JMO
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