Puppy bitework question - Page 2

 take into consideration ALL the facts .. first - i blast people for this ... never never work a dog unless first .. the most important .. you understand the temperament of the dog .  never never never .. i see some lamebrain helpers just let a dog go onto a field and .. then the work starts ..  what i look for : the relationship with the handler , the stress level of the pup .. do i need to stimulate it  or will 1 pass of the rag be enough for the bite . how is it responding to the environment , does it seem to recover from unfamiliar fast , is it social is it dominant , independent self assured .. or all of the opposites .. AD NAUSEUM .. get the point ?? NOW if the hackles go up i have an understanding  what is going on in the pup . , [ if you don't know what is wrong then how the hell are you going to address it or fix it ?]. the hackles up : obviously something stimulated the dog ... but ask why the hackles up .. a tail wagging alone is a sign of excitement - so generally at the very least there is  pup uncertainty / unfamiliarity / insecurity / unsureness  .. could be  intense fear [ ? to people / to the type of movement / helper presentation / the object ??} . can't say until i see the pup . also insecurity / lack of confidence / nervousness in  a novice training can contribute .. again can't tell unless seen . well .. yes ,, a better working pup is one with normal temp. and development with a ' bring it on careless attitude ' . but just because the hackles are up does not mean one has to dismiss this dog. with correct [ even unsound ] temperament CONFIDENCE can be increased and the pup can be brought along at least  as far as it can be .  

I would agree with the excitement bringing the hackles up. I have a four year old female, and in her excitement when chasing her frisbee, her hackles come up. She doesnt do it all the time, just when she is at her high end of excitement.

Just chiming in with the hackles from excitement response.

My dog'll do it when she's at the extreme high end of excitement. 

Hackling doesn't mean much unless you see the context its in.  Otherwise, its impossible to say what the deal is.

I think a more nervy insecure dog tends to raise hackles more.  I think of it as a nervous reponse, which may or may not turn into aggression.  My Malinois will raise her hackles when defensive or spooked, like others said.  Or when being territorially aggressive sometimes.  I haven't seen my older male raise his hackles, never. He is aggressive and a very confident dog. 

If a dog has an object like a ball or tug and other dogs are around, making them nervous it may get stolen from them, they can have their hackles up.

I don't see that much during bitework or tug, and if given a choice I would pick the puppy who is the most calm on the bite and doesn't have hackles up, which could be a sign of insecurity in a new environment or fear of the decoy tugging with him.

When hackles go up all along the back it's more fear, and when just on the shoulders its more exitement.  that is one theory.

If, as the OP seemed to indicate, I was choosing between two pups, I'd probably opt for the non-hackling pup, all other things being essentially equal.

FWIW, my female hackles at the base of her tail when excited, not at the shoulders or neck.  In entirely benign situations.  For example, seeing me carry her ball into the yard.

I read that in one of Coren's books and also in Kilcommons book, just a theory.  When she gets her ball in the yard are there any other dogs in the vicinity?  Maybe it's nervousness that it will be taken.  Probably just exitement.

Nope.  I only own one dog, and its typically just her and I in the yard together.  Its usually related to not having worked her the previous day, and I've always attributed it to pent-up excitement, lacking any more likely explanation.

I will note, however, that this behavior began well after puppyhood, somewhere around 13 months or so.  Prior to that, she'd only hackled once, the first time she encountered a snake, and it was most certainly fear/nervousness.

Thanks everyone for all the great responses. It has really been helpful. I really enjoy reading all the responses and have learned some.

The pup I am referring to only has raised hackles when they are lunging for the rag approx 2 feet or so in the air but not during the "rag tease" on the ground part. Once they catch the rag in the air then one of the pups has hair raised on or around its shoulder and also near its butt. The other pup has no raised hair at all in any of its rag work. In both cases neither pup seems to "fear" the helper in the slightest and seem quite happy doing their work.

Based on this I was simply wondering if you were choosing between the two which would you choose or if the difference as I explained in the pups was really no difference at all.

Thanks again for everyone who has shared their insight as again it has been most helpful.

Thanks again,

Joseph
edit was to correct spelling

 i did not see the videos .. but i re-read your post ........... it amazes me that even with a little bit of info ...[and i think the reason is that some of the people on this forum train a few  years in perhaps one sport ... then consider themselves knowledgeable / experts].  so a little bit of info, few  addressed the " ears back " commentary !! aside from the hackles ... WHAT does the ears back tell us about the pup /context ? also .. as stated before you have to know the pup and the context... i generally don't make assessments / judgments on one factor --but i stick to my outlook -- an insecurity ...  last comment : sometimes the answers are already in us ... instincts.. the mere fact that you are discerning between the two pups.. you already are telling yourself something .. sometimes our brains just get in the way !!