dominant Dog Collar - Page 2

What do you mean by "compressed"? When a link gets bent down flat it's actually impossible to remove. If it's slipping out when the links come close together, like for a correction, the links are loose and need to be replaced. I've seen just about every oops there is with a prong collar with my clients. I've you have a good quality collar, check the links regularly for weakness, take it on and off properly they should never be a problem.  Many prong collars sold at chain stores are absolute garbage, I should have mentioned that before. Not a correct angle of the prongs and the ends are rough as well. Invest in a good one. Sprenger of course and Titan is not a bad brand either, although sometimes the finish will flake off.

There also must be a tiny bit of slack on the collar or you do not get and effective pop and release when correcting. You should be able to fit your fingers underneath, turn it on the neck without too much difficulty, but the rings where the chain is attached should never touch when the collar is tightened, nor should the collar noticeably stand up off the neck if you try to lift it up a bit. It should of course never slide over their head.

If you are using a small link prong it must fit more tightly than a medium link or it will flip over. I don't use larges, I find them useless even on most very big dogs. A medium is a correct size for GSDs, unless your dog has a neck of steel, then you may need a small, although I'd recommend against it unless you're working with a trainer.

I probably don't have to say this here but in case anyone is reading to learn about collars- never attach a training collar to a tie out or flexi/retractable lead.

The only problem with using the dominant dog collar as back-up is the tightness of it can interfere with a proper prong collar correction. I usually recommend people buy a regular metal choke one size up, so when they correct the choke cannot stop the prong correction, and still gives the safetly aspect. You can also use a coupler (for walking two dogs), attach one clip to tyhe ring on your lead and one to your buckle collar if your dog wears one for tags in addition to their training collar.

A quick note on chokes- if your choke chain does not release fast you are using too heavy of a gauge chain. In my experience I;ve never seen a cloth choke release as quickly as it has less weight to it- but a choke with thick links does not release as fast, and if you put your choke on upside down it does not release at all!

Just some ideas and observations in my 10+ years as a full time trainer. :)

there are a few things these days that are made with quality in mind, cause the chinese crap sheapo shit in wal marts of the world is taking over, where the price matters not quality.

The best prong collar in the world is herm sprenger. It has to be H&S, if you are buying a prong, NOTING else comes close.

Even chinese people knowthis and they say - cheap stuff no good, good stuff no cheap.

With all that said, even Herm Sprenger can fall off the neck for some reason, one link slipped somehow after the dog scratched for a while, it happened once with my dog, but it's 99.9% reliable.

I wouldn't use a dominant dog collar, as a backup, too thin and too restricting. Dominant dog collar has a VERY SPECIFIC use, in a very specific way, under very specific circumstances and throughout the dog's life shouldn't be used much at all, maybe 2 or 3 times, if used correctly.

I'd usea regular flat collar if you need to have a backup. My dog has a H&S permanently on 24/7, that is his main collar, I got extra one in storage, noting else was ever needed.

If you buy a prong that is not H&S, then you are gambling, and as with any gambling game, sometimes you may lose.

Absolutely, Adi! These pet store prong collars are junk!

My 2 cents:  35 years of training and watching lots of people around me use pinch collars (I will use them, but rarely need to) I can say that even when fitted right they CAN come apart.  The more experienced people I know use a backup collar.

Leerburg's collar?  Just another way to choke your dog. Like Milan's "Ilusan collar". Nothing new. Gosh, it was uncomfortable to watch all the stress (lip licking) that malinois showed in his video on the collar.  Anybody else catch that? 

Now that you mention it...I did have too many links in the collar when it popped loose a few times.  Took them out, dog is better behaved...no more problem but I will continue to use the dominant dog collar as back up only...I don't need it for choking out my dog.  Good point guys!

I don't use a pinch anymore.

There's no call for a dominant dog collar with my current dog- she doesn't need that sort of correction, and not wearing a pinch, don't need a back-up collar.

Nobody really answered my queston-- you said "dominant dog collar", not "backup collar" (which I use a parachute slip lead for sometimes)... correct me if I'm wrong, these collars marketed by leerburg are based on the idea that a pinch collar will increase arousal but a choke will be used to choke the dog out if he's handler or dog-aggressive, something I don't agree with and concerns me... What does the leerburg page say about its use?

Yes, pinch collars come off, especially Herm Sprengers.  They have a fixed plate, and if that last link gets a little bent inwards, it can pop off.  It's happened to me several times, you need to check your links often, remove any weak ones.

Are you arguing against a training approach, or are you genuinely asking a question?

The idea of "hanging" a dog to address handler aggression is not a new one, and certainly did not originate with Ed Frawley.
He simply sells a tool that has been devised through the years to make it easier to do.

I can't comment on its efficacy personally, because I've never had a dog that I felt warranted it.  I've known folks who felt that they did have such dogs, and used the technique with a great deal of success.  Was hanging the dog the only solution to the problem?  I have no idea- I didn't train the dog and therefore don't know the intricacies of its temperment.  Is it possible that very few dogs warrant that sort of correction?  Quite possibly.  Many dogs don't warrant a prong collar, I don't see that as an argument against them.

I will say that it could be argued that its a sign of poor temperment if the dog needs that degree of correction. 

There are plenty of people on the Leerburg forum who have used the collar, however, that you could pose your question to if you're looking for firsthand knowledge.

If you want to debate the validity of the method, I simply can't.  Its designed for dogs that display aggression towards their owner, and I've never had my own dog attempt to attack me.  I've never even witnessed it.  I've seen dogs in a frenzy nip at their owners out of frustration, but I wouldn't consider it the same thing.

The website on leerburg answered my question.  Yes, it is intended to "take air away from a dog", and he describes how it is used so that the dog passes out, "The dog stays there until he passes out. Then he is lowered to the ground and lies there until he regains consciousness. Then we start again."  It is intended to be used not for corrections like snaps, but to "hang", in his words.

Wow.  And what if the dog doesn't wake back up?  I always see articles about deaths in teens who play that choking game where they make eachother pass out and they get a rush, and kids are dying from that game.

I will just say this is not how I would personally train a handler-aggressive dog, and I think dogs cannot learn without oxygen to their brains....

I hate how some trainers will justify certain methods by saying they're saving the dogs life-- the end always justifies the means, is that something you agree with?  and that treats won't work at this point (as if treats are the only other alternative to choking?), like there are not other ways to train an aggressive dog?   There are.  The "means" can be done other ways they don't have to be an all-positive extreme, I don't think it's an all-or-nothing thing.

Also- what does it matter if Frawley didn't invent it?  He's advocating it on a public webite where people across the world, anyone, pet owners, will be trying this on their dogs.  If he wants to be responsible for that, it's on him.  He is the one presenting himself to the general public as an expert on dog behavior and training, providing instructions for dog owners to choke their aggressive dogs until they pass out. 

EDIT:  No wonder dog training is an unregulated industry-- I see a lack in professional responsibility.  There are ethical considerations for providing professional advice online or to the general public.