Studies in Dog Genetics and/or breeding - Page 2

Incidentally, I am far from an academic, so I cannot point you in the direction of any studies on this subject. But the second part of your inquiry, and a very intriguing one, is the age old debate of "nature vs. nurture". There is a book you might be interested in entitled," Genes and Behavior: Nature-Nurture Interplay Explained". Instead of offering a perspective of two opposing ideas, it suggests that genes and environment contribute together to the end result.

I agree there bark and hold , but you cant nurture what nature didnot produce , so as for breedingchoices nurture doesnot count , nurture even can set you on the wrong foot as to what a dog geneticly posesses

let me give you a question with that
who was two times WUSV worldchampion
ronny vandenberg  or eros mohnwiese??

I completely agree with you... I only intended to suggest that nature and nuture compliment one another. With regards to your question about Ronnie, I would say that it was BOTH who were World Champion. Could a lesser handler have accomplished what Ronnie did? I would say maybe or maybe not. So perhaps it was not just the dog... In my opinion, it was the dog, the handler, the helper, the moment in time, etc... Could Ronnie have accomplished this with another dog? Maybe, or maybe not. Because if he could, then every dog he had would be World Champion. And by the way, so no one misinterprets what I said, I think that Ronnie is outstanding at what he does... Maybe the best in the World.

I think ronnie can do it with many other dogs , but doubt that eros could do it with another handler
that being said with all respect to the dog eros mohnwiese

As you know duke, I don't disagree with that view at all.  I just happen to know some useful ways of examining useless data.

What's important and relevant to this particular topic, is that the breeder has the most influence on the selection level, and that the ability to differentiate between what's inheritable and what's not is a very vague science at best.  But like yourself, I have respect for breeder's intuition also!  It's just that in my mind, genetics is first and foremost important to the breeder.  And the rest absolutely matters!

But we've both discussed my distaste for the whole premise of quantitive trait analysis in the past.  It's not much different than my reason for shunning the HD-Zuchtwerte system.  That's statistics, and it's not the same as inheritance.

I've explained to you before, the information on my website is simply there to ignite the spark that hopefully lights the fire of interest for those who want to take it a step further.  And it helps build a foundation of understanding and a trained mindset to allow for intelligable formulation of more advanced concepts.  It's senseless to go straight to higher levels of learning without covering a few basics first.  Yes, it's useful in the context of coat color inheritance, but it's been equally a disgrace for the kind of interest it has drawn.  I get emails all the time asking about breeding for colors, and I despise it.  They're totally missing the point.

Ronnie has already proven that he can do it with other dogs (but not every dog). With regards to Eros and another handler, you are probably right. I believe very strongly in the importance of the skill of the handler as well as the harmonious relationship between handler and a dog with the right stuff. But that is my point... It was the genetics of Eros combined with the rearing and training from Ronnie.

but if you breed to eros you dont get a half% of ronnie influence in the puppies , and thats the part where many go wrong

offcoarse as a sellingtool it  works wonders

True... But are you breeding to ensure that every puppy out of the litter is number 1 in the World, or are you breeding to ensure that a large percentage of the litters will have good pups with potential for , in this case, top sport?

in neither case , breeding the champion of the day ,has proved to be the answer , but was allways good for $$$

it would be to much to explain my complete breedingtoughts and ideas , but for me , first of all the male has to bring what the female is lacking , to say it simple , and since every female is lacking something different , the winner of WUSV or bundessieger or whatever , can never be the answer to every bitch

in my breeding , many times an unknown dog with the right qualities , brought me the best dogs