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by Videx on 01 May 2010 - 07:05
BAGSD have a decision to make and if they prevaricate, it will have consequences.
by nugget on 01 May 2010 - 07:05
Hi Hodie;
The E mail from the WUSV is undoubtedly genuine, and was received by both UK WUSV member clubs
Personally, I would have thought that, even in a Country like the US, where there is some parity in in both WUSV member clubs in terms of both numbers and standards of competing dog/handler teams, and previously the alternative for all to elect to compete in both organization's selection processes (as I understand it) some may nevertheless favour the clarity of a joint selection process.
In the UK, where there is no such parity, and their is a widespread belief that the present system is divisive, favours a privileged few and has prevented for a number of years the UK being represented appropriately at such events as the WUSV World Championships, the implementation of a joint selection process is essential, in my view. One WUSV member club, the GSDL, recognizes this, and has for some time been advocating the adoption of such a process. BAGSD, the other WUSV member club, has remained steadfastly opposed to this initiative, and refuses to enter into any meaningful discussion on the matter.
So for the vast majority of participants in the sport in the UK the WUSV decision is a huge positive step.
Of course this is my opinion only, and others will have their own perspective. The reality of the situation may be viewed in a balanced way by considering that, by the end of the GSDL's selection process for the WUSV/FCI events, between 30 and 40 different dogs will have taken part in these events. Up to now, I have note 5 in the BAGSD ones.
Topically, BAGSD have their "Super Trophy" this weekend, a mandatory event for WUSV/FCI Selection for their organization. We will see from this event the strenth in depth of that organization, which still hold the right to send half the team to the WUSV/FCI events.
Nugget
The E mail from the WUSV is undoubtedly genuine, and was received by both UK WUSV member clubs
Personally, I would have thought that, even in a Country like the US, where there is some parity in in both WUSV member clubs in terms of both numbers and standards of competing dog/handler teams, and previously the alternative for all to elect to compete in both organization's selection processes (as I understand it) some may nevertheless favour the clarity of a joint selection process.
In the UK, where there is no such parity, and their is a widespread belief that the present system is divisive, favours a privileged few and has prevented for a number of years the UK being represented appropriately at such events as the WUSV World Championships, the implementation of a joint selection process is essential, in my view. One WUSV member club, the GSDL, recognizes this, and has for some time been advocating the adoption of such a process. BAGSD, the other WUSV member club, has remained steadfastly opposed to this initiative, and refuses to enter into any meaningful discussion on the matter.
So for the vast majority of participants in the sport in the UK the WUSV decision is a huge positive step.
Of course this is my opinion only, and others will have their own perspective. The reality of the situation may be viewed in a balanced way by considering that, by the end of the GSDL's selection process for the WUSV/FCI events, between 30 and 40 different dogs will have taken part in these events. Up to now, I have note 5 in the BAGSD ones.
Topically, BAGSD have their "Super Trophy" this weekend, a mandatory event for WUSV/FCI Selection for their organization. We will see from this event the strenth in depth of that organization, which still hold the right to send half the team to the WUSV/FCI events.
Nugget
by steve1 on 01 May 2010 - 20:05
Nugget
Is that correct, do you mean 5 entries in a selection trial to go forwards for the WUSV, How is that amount of dogs possible in such an event, and how is it possible to select even 50% of a countries team from 5 competitors if that is what you are saying then it is ludicrous, Even if the trial is one of say two or three it is still not right in the numbers how can the best team or even part of a team for a country be selected from such trials
Steve1
Is that correct, do you mean 5 entries in a selection trial to go forwards for the WUSV, How is that amount of dogs possible in such an event, and how is it possible to select even 50% of a countries team from 5 competitors if that is what you are saying then it is ludicrous, Even if the trial is one of say two or three it is still not right in the numbers how can the best team or even part of a team for a country be selected from such trials
Steve1
by nugget on 01 May 2010 - 22:05
Hi Steve;
It is correct and you're right it is ludicrous
The BAGSD system is a bit complex (it's on their website) but I think it dictates that you must declare for the BAGSD selection process in the November of the year before. I think you bring scores from any 2 trials (club trials, where I think the 5 I mentioned were the only dogs entered from BAGSD!) to the table and you must attend the "Super Trophy" this weekend. I think there are 5 dog handler teams declared, but 9 entries in SCH111 at the "Super Trophy". (1 is a dog from the GSDL, 3 have not competed before this year as far as I am aware, which leaves the 5 mentioned as candidates).
Of these 5 candidates for WUSV/FCI, today 3 have failed the track, in what is described on another Forum as "Excellent Conditions". Some of these dogs have failed at earlier events- but It does not matter, BAGSD process does not mention qualifying, just point accumulated, and these five are the only ones in the game, as far as I am aware, so they will be going to WUSV/FCI under present arangements.
I will inform on their progress tomorrow, but you get the gist of what is happening over here.
Nugget
It is correct and you're right it is ludicrous
The BAGSD system is a bit complex (it's on their website) but I think it dictates that you must declare for the BAGSD selection process in the November of the year before. I think you bring scores from any 2 trials (club trials, where I think the 5 I mentioned were the only dogs entered from BAGSD!) to the table and you must attend the "Super Trophy" this weekend. I think there are 5 dog handler teams declared, but 9 entries in SCH111 at the "Super Trophy". (1 is a dog from the GSDL, 3 have not competed before this year as far as I am aware, which leaves the 5 mentioned as candidates).
Of these 5 candidates for WUSV/FCI, today 3 have failed the track, in what is described on another Forum as "Excellent Conditions". Some of these dogs have failed at earlier events- but It does not matter, BAGSD process does not mention qualifying, just point accumulated, and these five are the only ones in the game, as far as I am aware, so they will be going to WUSV/FCI under present arangements.
I will inform on their progress tomorrow, but you get the gist of what is happening over here.
Nugget
by Videx on 01 May 2010 - 22:05
It is very important that a comprehensive and detailed report is produced on the BAGSD FCI qualifying trials - The report will then be sent to the Kennel Club, the FCI, and numerous FCI member Kennel Clubs around the World.
Such a report will be powerfully persuasive in bringing an end to the current ludicrous situation here in Great Britain.
The TRUTH of it will indeed be very powerful in bringing the required changes.
Such a report will be powerfully persuasive in bringing an end to the current ludicrous situation here in Great Britain.
The TRUTH of it will indeed be very powerful in bringing the required changes.
by steve1 on 02 May 2010 - 04:05
Well as we say in the UK
'I'll go to sea'. No wonder they made such a mess of it in Gernany if that practise is going on they will make themselves the Laughing stock of the WUSV if they do not get there act together
Steve1
'I'll go to sea'. No wonder they made such a mess of it in Gernany if that practise is going on they will make themselves the Laughing stock of the WUSV if they do not get there act together
Steve1
by Member on 02 May 2010 - 06:05
Nugget (Chris) I think you will find the dogs that turn up for the Super Trophy were only required to turn up and take part as their previous scores if better than those achieved at this event would be the scores allowed. The whole idea was get get people to attend the Super Trophy weekend . This condition of attendence was just one of the new rules invented just before I resigned from the EC. Including myself and most other members of the EC we could not understand the benifit of this new rule which was presented at a meeting by the VPG chairman. So please understand to attend and do really well your scores will count but if you fail for any reason your previous scores will count, if you fail to turn up for the event then you cannot be selected no matter how good your previous scores are . I rest my case.
John Ward
John Ward
by Videx on 02 May 2010 - 07:05
The "Nye clan" self interest clearly rules BAGSD-VPG - with the support of Winfrow.
by nugget on 02 May 2010 - 08:05
Hi John;
Perhaps you can comment on this, as you were on the BAGSD EC at the time these rules were put in place;
BAGSD Selection Criteria for WUSV/FCI
THE BAGSDS SELECTION PROCESS 2010 (from their website)
1. All participants must have been a BAGSD member during 2009.
2. All participants must declare for the BAGSDS team no later than 30th November, 2009.
3. By declaring for the BAGSDS team each participant accepts an undertaking that they will not declare for any other organisation’s team.
4. All BAGSDS VPG events will count towards team points but the BAGSD Supertrophy is mandatory.
5. Each participant will submit their best three scores and the best average scores will make up the BAGSD team.
6. Only one continental score may be submitted.
7. The starting date for qualifying scores is at Walsall VPG on the 24th/25th October, 2009 and the finishing date is the 31st June, 2010.
Here are the results of the only BAGSD/VPG events to have taken in place in UK, as far as I am aware; (I have highlighted in yellow the 5 I percieve meet quilification criteria)
Washington VPG - 18th April 2010 Judge - John Sneddon
VPG3
T.Nye - Magical Mayhem Vomhausnye (GSD) A95 B77 C80 Total 252
D.Hague - Ursus v Olschnabel (GSD) A83 B84 C91 Total 251
S.Nye - Boomer vd Adelegg (GSD) A87 B67 C% Total %
S.Nye - Carlsbro Ozzie (GSD) A79 B80 C76 Total % (from BAGSD website, but would appear to have made 235)
D.Wooles - Woolshan Gundel (GSD) A94 B C% Total %
J.Wood - Optikas Gunner (GSD) A90 B83 C% Total %
E.Wight - Glen v Hexenkeller (GSD) Withdrawn
Derbyshire VPG – 19/20/21 March 2010 Judge – Peter Rohde
VPG 3
D. Hague – Ursus von Olschnedel – 78 92 90 total 260
J. Wood – Optikas Gunner – 70 95 90 total 255
S. Nye – Boomer von der Adelegg – 83 76 91 total 250
S. Nye – Carlsbro Ozzie – 10 79 94 total %
T. Nye – Magical Mayhem vomhausnye – 23 85 82 total %
J. Rogers – Tyguard Delta – 56 withdrawn handler illness
I am aware that some of the five also competed in a Belge Club Trial early in the year (and in fairness, did better than the above scores) .
All five are competing in the Supertrophy- 3 failed the track yesterday.
John am I right in thinking the above highlighted dogs are the only one elegible to make the team? (or can anyone who does the Supertrophy go)?
Nugget
Perhaps you can comment on this, as you were on the BAGSD EC at the time these rules were put in place;
BAGSD Selection Criteria for WUSV/FCI
THE BAGSDS SELECTION PROCESS 2010 (from their website)
1. All participants must have been a BAGSD member during 2009.
2. All participants must declare for the BAGSDS team no later than 30th November, 2009.
3. By declaring for the BAGSDS team each participant accepts an undertaking that they will not declare for any other organisation’s team.
4. All BAGSDS VPG events will count towards team points but the BAGSD Supertrophy is mandatory.
5. Each participant will submit their best three scores and the best average scores will make up the BAGSD team.
6. Only one continental score may be submitted.
7. The starting date for qualifying scores is at Walsall VPG on the 24th/25th October, 2009 and the finishing date is the 31st June, 2010.
Here are the results of the only BAGSD/VPG events to have taken in place in UK, as far as I am aware; (I have highlighted in yellow the 5 I percieve meet quilification criteria)
Washington VPG - 18th April 2010 Judge - John Sneddon
VPG3
T.Nye - Magical Mayhem Vomhausnye (GSD) A95 B77 C80 Total 252
D.Hague - Ursus v Olschnabel (GSD) A83 B84 C91 Total 251
S.Nye - Boomer vd Adelegg (GSD) A87 B67 C% Total %
S.Nye - Carlsbro Ozzie (GSD) A79 B80 C76 Total % (from BAGSD website, but would appear to have made 235)
D.Wooles - Woolshan Gundel (GSD) A94 B C% Total %
J.Wood - Optikas Gunner (GSD) A90 B83 C% Total %
E.Wight - Glen v Hexenkeller (GSD) Withdrawn
Derbyshire VPG – 19/20/21 March 2010 Judge – Peter Rohde
VPG 3
D. Hague – Ursus von Olschnedel – 78 92 90 total 260
J. Wood – Optikas Gunner – 70 95 90 total 255
S. Nye – Boomer von der Adelegg – 83 76 91 total 250
S. Nye – Carlsbro Ozzie – 10 79 94 total %
T. Nye – Magical Mayhem vomhausnye – 23 85 82 total %
J. Rogers – Tyguard Delta – 56 withdrawn handler illness
I am aware that some of the five also competed in a Belge Club Trial early in the year (and in fairness, did better than the above scores) .
All five are competing in the Supertrophy- 3 failed the track yesterday.
John am I right in thinking the above highlighted dogs are the only one elegible to make the team? (or can anyone who does the Supertrophy go)?
Nugget
by Member on 02 May 2010 - 08:05
Hello Chris, from how I understand it you are correct. The Super Trophy was only to finalize the season of qualifying trials and using the scores gained previously as well as being able to use those if higher from the Super Trophy. Yes, one continental result could also be used. No matter how good your dog has performed during the qualifying period a failure to turn up and participate in the Super Trophy would exclude you from the team. Turning up for the Super Trophy and gaining the least scores but already having gained excellent scores in the previous qualifying trials you would be eligible to make the team. I hope this explains the situation.
John Ward
John Ward
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