When should my dog show protection? - Page 2

"Just because a pup has defensive drive doesn't mean that it is going to be a ruthless and undiscriminating killer like some here would have you think. It is an important component of the gsd."



Exactly.  If you want a dog to kiss up to every stranger, you've got the wrong breed.  Aloof, and wary, iswhat they are supposed to be.

I disagree that they can tell.  How is the dog to know?   Bad guys act like good guys all the time to worm their way in.  More than half the time, we can't even tell.

I am quoting the standard when I say they are to be aloof and wary of strangers.  They wouldn't be much good as working dogs if they weren't.

I still think it is 90% genetic.

I am saying certain dogs CAN tell, not ALL dogs, and yes, they can sense things that people sometimes can't. Just because they don't bark or growl at all strangers and strange noises does not mean they won't be protective if they sense a threat. I am all for balance, as that is the ideal, but if I had to choose one, I would always choose a high defense threshold. Theresa

The dog probably has high thresholds and sounds very confident. What did the TD say about when you "worked him in schutzhund" ? Sounds like a good dog that needs to be trained and taught certain behaviours to get what you are looking for. This is NOT a red flag

i think on certain threads it is very very difficult to get the whole scope of a subject. --- first -- with all our GSDs  behaviors are a manifestation of [ and will always be ] 50% genetic  make-up [ including predisposed instincts] and 50% experience from environmental / what's  learned [ intentionally and unintentionally]. Dogs are context specific learners who   can to a degree generalize.  there lies the basis of the previous comments. An influencing factor is the relationship with your dog. NOW ....... the first response of your dog is : self preservation .. [ flight , fright , or flight]. . second .. alot of confusion [ and i write this 1000 times \ is the use of the word 'drive/ defense .....  SO WHAT IS EXACTLY 'defense' THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING?  defense ... like prey has different components ! being watchful / guarding / attacking/encountering within human body space/ killing . i tell  people who  buy pups from me .. a well balanced , clear headed GSD should be taught protection work .. Not all dogs will automatically alert or will encounter into body .. they just don't have the genetic make-up .. as some have menmtioned .. e'g the CONTEXT .. the dog must have a certain outlook [ perceptioon] to offer a specific behavior.  other comments .. what you percieve may not be what the dog percieves. what you think you have taught may not be what the dog has learned.   Also : you cannot make a dog what  it is not .. you can instill confidence but courage and the will to be combative is different. many a dog with low defensive attributes behaviors can at least be taught to be more suspicious and be watchful to the point of alerting. !! [ and an alert many times is a call for help .. to muster the tropops.] . IMO , as some have alluded to in refernence to the GSD .. a GSD that with the proper experience / learning that does not bark at someone at the doog fffor example .. is a very very pitful dog! even a terrier or some golden retrievers will bark in tnhat context. It is our responsibility to know our dog  and to teach what it is capable of learning. Hmm . not all dogs will prtotect.. even if they have it in them ///or should .. [ common sense . the dog may encounter IF --- IF--  it thinks it wil not get harmed and/or will be victorious !!- that is learned !!] THAT is WHY we TEACH personal protection .. i am not always comfortable with dogs agreesing unless that has been conditioned/ trained and in that context controlled. !!  ALL the post here are very very good for you to consider

 <<<disagree that they can tell. How is the dog to know? Bad guys act like good guys all the time to worm their way in. More than half the time, we can't even tell.>>>

I don't know, my girl has show that she can "tell" a few times.   For example, she rides in the car in her open crate.  She is quiet but watches people who pass by.   I've had stupid people reach in and ruffle the top of her head when I was pumping gas (who expects people to do that? )  and she blatantly ignored the guy as insignificant.

But then there was the day I was sitting in a parking lot alone, waiting for someone.   This "very nice" guy approached my truck and sweetly started asking me if I could give him a ride just down the street.   There were tons of other groups of people with cars hanging around that he could have asked.   Before I could answer him,  and I didn't even hear her coming,  my girl was standing behind my seat with her head on my shoulder, staring the guy in the face eye to eye with a deep belly growl...   why him?  why then?  what made her suspicous?   I"ve talked to people before, and he was making no overt threats or challenges to the human eye. 

I have to say though, she isn't a "friendly" dog normally,  although she has learned that on leash in public she must be sociable and polite.  So I can't speculate if the dog in this thread is capable of behaving similarly.   She barks at a footstep on the lawn, no one gets close enough to the door to knock before she barks. 

Heather

I've never had a dog that could tell.  Their job is to find everyone suspicious until I say otherwise. 

One day my brother stopped at the end of the laneway, my dog just barked, until my daughter came out  then he got much more worried.  My brother thought he was the greatest dog ever after that, however, my brother isn't a bad guy.


These dogs I have now, sound off  fantastically when someone  comes in.  My girl gets much more  upset if it is a repair man, or  if he smells like smoke. 

She is fine when I tell her it's okay.

  My Bomber pup has a gorgeous deep bark, and he too is wary of strangers.   Which is what I want.  I am very pleased with both of my dogs.

We had previously been robbed of our tools, (was happening quite a bit in this area) and that hasn't happened since I've had some good deterrants, and that is all I ask of them. They are great deterrants, and great looking, great with my children and great fun!

as i worked him in schutzhund, the helper told me that my dog is very balanced and confident.  he knows when the helper is playing and when the helper is being serious.  his on/off switch is a great.  furthermore, the helper indicated that my gsd can easily go from sch 1 to sch 3 easily with proper training.  thus, led me to asking them about my dog's deterrent and protectiveness.  i was alluded that my dog will eventually bark as he grows older, so i left it at that.  now, he's 2.9 years old, i have not seen that from him.  i'm trying to get a second opinion on this to make sure my gsd is doing what he supposed to be doing at this time of age.

i have to admit, this was my first gsd.  i've always wanted one and when opportunity knocked, i took it when he was 11 mons old. 

i appreciate the advice, opinion, and feedback.

thank you.

After scanning through the threads I can understand your dilemma.

I have have two examples of my own:

1. A 5 yr old Female that is 100% European Working Lines Service Dog.  Extremely trainable as a pup through her advanced training.  She is very much like the dog you described.  She would bark on the training field but not in my Yukon or Home.  Unless commanded to.  She was and still is tough on the streets but the saying is "If you hear her bark, your ass is about to get bit."  While some K9 Handlers say kennel your dog unless on patrol - We choose for her to live in our house.  It is safer for her and us. So at 2 we began to conditioned her to alarm at home by getting helpers to ring the door bell, knock on the doors, rattle the windows, over turn the garbage cans, etc.  Now she is one hell of a family protection dog.  No one enters without her letting us know.

2. Now I am training a young male 6 months old.  Again, 100% European Working Lines.  He is the complete opposite when it come to barking.  He has an attitude that he can already kick ass and take names.

So, what made the difference? I have to say that it is mostly in the blood.  It seems like either they have it or they don't.  They can be trained to bark on command but if they are not already a barker it is real tough.

Good Luck,
Tuff