vaccinate or not - Page 2

When I first got my pup 3 years ago, I called through the phone book saying something like "I have a new puppy and I plan on feeding raw and minimal vaccinations... "   After going through over 20 vet offices I found ONE vet who encouraged me and is supportive.   We'll go to her as long as she is around!   But I do have to watch they don't schedule us with the other vet at the practice who will try to lecture me on "this vaccination nonsense" as she calls it.  She would indeed like to inject my dog with everything they have.

Heather

I do puppy vacs and that's it.
Rabies as required by law.

I did a titre when I first brought my pup home too, but she had no evidence of an immunizing response from her first puppy shots at the breeders.   So we did the single vaccines for parvo and distemper only.

I have not vaccinated for lepto, although I go back and forth about it.   What I read about the duration of the vaccine and it's effectiveness, as well as the risk for adverse reactions made me decide to skip it.   But we DO hike and spend a great deal of time around livestock and wet ground.  For now I have not done it. 

Lyme is getting so prevalent here I consider that one as well but have not decided to do it as of yet.

Heather

In my opinion, you were right to vaccinate beyond what the puppy got at the breeder's, Heather. That first puppy shot at between 6 to 8 weeks does not provide any sort of lasting immunity. An immune system, be it canine or human, needs to be mature enough to produce an antibody response when stimulated with antigens, which is why we complete the puppy series begun by the breeder and then follow that with an adult booster at 16 months.

Like you, we don't immunize against lepto. The exposure is there, not only on our rural property but also in the many new places the dogs find themselves when we go on cross-country camping trips. Our reasons for not vaccinating against lepto are the same as yours. We also don't vaccinate against Lyme disease. Its effectiveness is questionable and the shot has to be repeated every six months. Lyme disease is treatable. We do a fluorescent antibody test once a year and treat the dog if he has a high Lyme titre.

If someone is going to revaccinate, the 7 year protocol makes the most sense to me, though I don't vax my adult dogs.

Here are some links that I have, if anyone is interested:



http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ImmuneSystem.htm#Immunological%20Effects%20of%20Vaccines (Canine Immune System and Disease Resistance)

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/24742094/Canine-Vaccinations , Designing Safe and Effective Vaccination Programs for Dogs by Dr. Ronald Schultz, University of Wisconsin, Madison

http://vonhapsburg.homestead.com/haywardstudyonvaccines.html (Purdue University and Hayward Foundation Study on Vaccines)

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/124/9/1821 (muscle pain caused by aluminum)

http://thewholedog.org/wholedognews/?p=450 (Canine Health Concerns Interim Report 2007)

http://www.vaclib.org/pdf/vaxscience-in-dogs.pdf (The Science of Vaccine Damage)

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2042916&id=1447415540&ref=mf (rabies vaccine reaction)

http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/2/658?view=full&pmid=10639430 (Occurrence of Severe Destructive Lyme Arthritis in Hamsters Vaccinated with OSP-A vaccine and Challenged with Borrelia burgdorferi)

http://www.lymeinfo.net/vaccine.html

I give my dogs the full series of puppy shots, then take them to the vet for one rabies shot between 4 and 6 months, and then a year later, the mandatory 3 year booster rabies..  Also at a little over a year I give them the DAPP booster.
I have never given any of my dogs the Lyme disease shot, as I have always been told it comes from ticks and I keep my dogs on flea/tick preventative.... Is this true, about only coming from ticks?

Not to hijack the thread...but my vet has been pushing the Giardia shot and I let them "talk" me into giving it to my last puppy. I planned to refuse it for my newest pup, but was curious as to what people here think...  I have never in 20 years had a puppy get giardia.

Stacy

I didn't know there *was* a giardia shot!   My own dogs have never had it, but the foster pup I have right now came from a hoarder situation and has been treated twice so far for it.  Seems hard to get rid of.   Keeping things extra clean and dry and watching my own dogs carefully.   I've heard a lot of dogs just carry small amts. of the organism though with never a symptom of a problem?

Heather

Yes from what the vet said this shot is relatively new... I had never heard of it until then either. I suppose it would be good in you've been having a problem with giardia. I have been lucky enough not to... I did know a husky breeder that kept having reoccuring bouts of it in her kennel. I lost touch with her, but I bet it would be good fo rher... She did say it was hard to get rid of..
Stacy

Giardia appears to be hard to get rid of because its life cycle includes a resistant cyst stage which can survive in the soil and water for long periods of time. The infection itself is easily treated with Flagyl (metronidazole) but animals and people get reinfected from handling items contaminated with feces from an infected animal (or human) and ingesting the infective cyst. Giardiasis is also known as Beaver Fever which is the result of drinking contaminated water, for instance water from a creek or spring when you're out on a hike.

There are several morphologically distinct species recognized which makes a vaccine difficult. In fact, there is no giardia vaccine available for humans. It's similar in that regard to lepto with its many serovars. The current lepto vaccine is somewhat effective against only four of them. What if your dog is exposed to any of the others?

In a home environment giardia can be managed by getting somewhat fanatical about hygiene until the infected dog is clear. The dog should be isolated for the duration. Scooping equipment should be rinsed in a solution of 1 c Clorox to 1 gal water. Wash his butt with soapy water after he's had a bowel movement, clean the yard or kennel, then rinse with a dilute bleach solution. It'll kill the grass but it will also kill the parasite. You can always reseed. Wash contaminated crate bedding in hot water with bleach.

Keep a tub of bleach water or Lysol water by the door and rinse your shoes before you go inside. Wear rubber gloves when handling the sick dog. Wash your hands often and avoid touching your eyes, nose, mouth.

All this is much harder to do for breeders or for people with multiple dogs. We've never had giardia here and knock on wood we don't get it. It's highly infectious and a lot of work to get rid of.

Thanks for posting that Aqua! good to know

S