ULM/THE DOGS WHO DID NOT DO WELL - Page 2

Uberland,
Thank God that you & your dogs have never had a bad day at their ScH trials or International Conformation Shows.........
Come on!!!!! ......
No body is making excuses for anything..........
But I have had "bad days" and GREAT days........and ALOT of bad days in bitework sessions for any dogs, are due to poor training.
I've watched ScH National Competitors have "bad days"........and I've felt awful for them also.
Not all dogs have the super hard drives or nerves for competition.....that is for sure.....and we need to be very careful for the future of our breed........working line & show lines alike.....it needs to change quickly.
But, ...to say that the dogs that didn't do well, are the reason this breed is degrading.....is nonsence.
This breed has "degraded" because breeders and owners alike, "preach" what should be done......without doing anything themselves about it.
When I am fortunate enough again, to have a dog competing in the German Sieger Show.....I pray that my nerves can once again withstand the stress, and my dog doesn't have a "bad day"........for whatever reason.
If I did not "show" dogs.......maybe I wouldn't understand some of the "crap" that happens.....but I do, so I am well aware.
If my dogs were not "titled".......maybe I couldn't understand why they have "poor working days".....but they are, and I've witnessed them.
Sometimes shit happens.......(politics, money, bad bitework, normal progeny..etc.)

 Ok..I've watch only the first section of the bite work (but will watch the rest as soon as I have time) and on the first sheet only on about 30 dogs..11 didn't pass. And this is not just a bad day for these dogs i'm sorry to burst some bubbles there..A dog can miss a bite but has to return with no fear in his eyes..not  turn around the decoy backing away or run!!

Lots of insecures dogs who just either don't bite and run away..or lots of dogs that have far from good grip.

I've also notice that the decoy number 4 was pretty hard on the dogs (didn't like is work) He was hard on the mouth and just looked like he was there to make them fail..and it worked!! I don't want to excuse the dogs cause for me courage is courage whatever the decoy does but this one was a LOT harder than the other ones..too bad  for the softer ones who had him.

After 3 hours I have to say I wasn't impress at all..except for number 1014 (who I think is a working line)..he was pretty impressive and gave me goose bumps..very good dog.I can't seem to find is name on the list..too bad he wasn't so impressive on his conformation :((

I'm talking about the male working class..can't wait to watch the rest. But overall i'm a little desapointed :((

Funny.....I watched the videos too.....
Can't say that I counted as many "bad dogs".....bad helper work yes, bad training yes, SOME not so strong nerved dogs...ABSOLUTELY...........so...no bursting bubbles.
Again.......I can say...I've been there......seen GREAT dogs fail......and not just show dogs.

I'm sorry,
but if you have a dog thats $100,000 to $300,000 (thats what VA's are going for right?), then I wouldn't like to see it not passing the bitework at the most prestigious show in the world.  these are supposed to be the best of the best, cream of the crop for the worlds german shepherd.  bad training, poor handlers, bad day,  just excuses. this should not happen at the world sieger show. 

 

I haven't watched this show yet but I've attended other Sieger Shows and IMO, some dogs are great dogs and deservedly pass, some dogs are not so great dogs but are trained well enough (or harsh enough) to pass, some dogs just have a bad day, some dogs are good dogs but have not been trained properly or hardly at all, and some dogs just don't have what it takes.  They are all over the board, there is no sense in saying "the entire show was a disappointment" and trying to lump all the dogs into the same category.

"This breed has "degraded" because breeders and owners alike, "preach" what should be done......without doing anything themselves about it."

I agree with crhuerta's statement.  I'd rather spend my time working MY dog to my standards than pointing my fingers at the other dogs and trying to fit them all into the categories above.  If I knew my dog was not trained or didn't have the courage and would perform as poorly as some of the dogs I have seen (whatever their reasons for performing poorly), I would not even enter my dog, but that's just me.  When I do something it is not to just "get by" it is to contend.

"seen GREAT dogs fail......and not just show dogs."

I agree with this one as well.  For all the crap I get from some elitist working line people saying that my dog is not even worth evaluating because he is black and red, each of these people has had times where one of their dogs has been run off the field or something like that.

Not going to pass judgement on any dogs, though I would like to see the percent of workinglines that failed bitework. If the concept of dogs having a "bad" day is valid, then this is something that could happen to any dog. Therefore, it stands to reason that some of the workinglines are going to have bad days also.(Handler stress, bad decoys, not feeling well today, does not just happen to any one line of dogs). Now if the reason for these failures are only in one type of dog(and I don't know that's why I am interested in the percents with the workinglines), then bad day isn't really valid because that should be fairly evenly distributed. Maybe someone can research this as it seems there were a substantial amount of workinglines entered this year compared to other years. Just curious!

Gustav

Gustav,
I don't think the "working line" dogs failed the bitework....?...I think it was our "show line" line dogs that did.
And I have witnessed "working line" dogs fail at the trials as well as the Nationals.......most times the handlers only blame the helpers......again....I personally think...a bad day is a bad day......after all...isn't that what "they" were bred to do?
The problem with the show lines I have witnessed over and over again.......training is done on a "crash course".....many breeders put no emphasis on doing the job right.......just get them done and passed.
Well....you get out what you are willing to put in......
Personally, when my dogs competed in the Sieger Shows here in the US.......they WERE prepared......my male was applauded......excellent bitework....2 years in a row.
The only thing I am trully disappointed in this year ....is that some of the working line dogs didn't place a little better.

I take offense to people that critcize others & their dogs in this sport, when they themselves have never walked the same walk.   I'm a firm believer that if you are not part of the solution.....then you are part of the problem.  If you don't contribute, then don't criticize.
My solution is simple......try to breed better dogs.  Temperment, nerve & structure.
Gustav, you know that I respect your point of views...maybe I don't ALWAYS agree....but I was taught to appreciatet those that have "paved their own path"............

then if the dogs aren't ready,  why take them to such a show where they will fail and give people a chance to talk down about them?

I understand sh*t happens,  but you shouldn't see this at a World Sieger Show.  these dogs should be fully prepared, know the routine down pat.  maybe I shouldn't say its the dogs problem.  maybe fingers should be pointed at the owners and trainers of these dogs.

Do you hear alot of people say their dog failed bitework at the BSP cause it was having a bad day?  no, I generally hear them say I need to work more on such and such.

like Liesjers  stated "If I knew my dog was not trained or didn't have the courage and would perform as poorly as some of the dogs I have seen (whatever their reasons for performing poorly), I would not even enter my dog, but that's just me. When I do something it is not to just "get by" it is to contend."

Uberland,
This post of your I totally agree with...........the owners and trainers need to step it up!
Yes.....I do hear at the Nationals....."that helper sucks! he purposely did that so my dog looks like shit!...or...my dog never did that before!"...
And yes....do not enter if you are not ready to "contend".
Again......absolutely do not enter a dog that does not have the temperment to honestly compete.