Police dog training - Page 2

Civilians who have no knowledge about real K9 deployments should not compare their sport dogs to Police K9s. Just because the Sheriff was impressed wtih a dog's out does not mean that the Sheriff has the savvy to understand that  the dog he saw is suitable as a Police K9.

A high prey dog who is a good schutzhund candidate is likely not the best Patrol dog candidate. A civil dog high in fight drive is not the best schutzhund candidate. Just because your GSD has a schH3 does not mean that it has the drives needed for Patrol work. Same goes for some hard ass Patrol dogs, they will likely be harder to control, and less likely to be high scoring sport candidates.  So we are likely talking about different animals in most cases.

Civilians training for dogsport have time to imprint and train a nice clean out. Most Patrol dogs are given 6 to 8 weeks to train OB, apprehension work, and tracking, and sometimes detection work too, then the dog and handler hit the street.. The year following basic certification is when the fine tuning occurs, and hopefully if the foundation work was good then the dog will improve. The handler is likely someone who is a lot less passionate and skilled at dog training and handling than a lot of sport handlers, so that adds to the complexity, but let's not put down a bad session of Police K9 training just so we can bash cops and cop dog training. Hasn't anyone had a bad session of control work with their dogs? I certainly have.

Many people don't realize that dogs release real bites much better because there is no equipment fixation. Without a suit or sleeve, a dog will out much cleaner.  Or that most K9 deployments end with a tactical lift off, to keep the cover officers safe. Verbal outs are great, and required for certification, but in real life scenarios they are rarely used. A dog outing after a fight with a suspect will likely still be in fight and high levels of drive, likely to target an officer after the out. Outing well on equipment is a higher level of control, and should be everyone's goal but it's not like a dog is going to be left mauling a suspect if a verbal out fails, the dog will likely be lifted off in the first place, WHEN IT IS SAFE TO DO SO.

Most agencies allow a minimum of training time due to budgets and staffing levels, so most handlers have to make do with what time they are allotted and time they can train while in service. Let's not forget that these handlers are the ones that run towards danger to protect the civilian population, and K9 teams are usually deployed in the worst of the worst scenarios. Give them a break, people. They aren't perfect, but I don't think anyone here has achieved perfect training yet....I certainly have not. But all my dogs do out well :)

VHL Biter,
                    No one knows until they are faced off with a real turkey who
is high on drugs and alcohol, what it must be like out on the street. The
other thing is Gang Bangers, these little turds are flat out crazy. So your
point is well taken, the Dutch agree with you 100%. If you are a Police
man with a dog, you have my gratitude. The thing that makes me
cringe is watching police Nationals where the dogs look almost totally
untrained.

I work with K9 cops and they have my full support.  And while initial training is only a matter of weeks, most good departments do a TON of training with the dogs during the week. I'd hazard to say much more than I do with my sport dogs! : )  No cop bashing here, just pointing out that it is a waste of TIME to have the decoy "freeze" cuz it ain't gonna happen on the street.

BTW: while that video may represent a trainer who is very good, it is so unprofessional in appearance (and sound) I couldn't make it through the whole thing.

Wolfinbock,

I'm certainly not saying all Police dogs are great and all Police dog trainers are great. The same applies to the sport world. As someone who does both dogsport and works a dog on the street, I tire of reading and listening to people criticize Police K9 handlers and dogs, when they are really just saying is how their dog is a better dog blah blah blah and their training is better etc.. Handling and training a dog on the street is a completely different undertaking than having a hobby where you train your own personal dog.

Not every agency has skilled trainers and the time and resources to let novice trainers and handlers have access to seminars and trainers that can advance their skills. The dogs in the video didn't look great, that's obvious....but all I read was criticizim and people theorizing on what level the dogs were, their certification, etc. It was not good training but unless you know all the facts behind the video, leave it at that.

vhleigbiter-I do know these dogs first hand as I worked with the officers. I took a bite from the one dog and was tracked by it...well actually if they didn't know where I was in the first place the dog wouldn't have found me.They weren't that good at finding drugs either as the oficer knew where they were and led the dog to it. How is a dog to learn if it is always told where it is? It doesn't learn to work on it's own. I have trained a dog for a police dept and worked at a place for years that train police dogs for many departments. Maybe I just expect more since I was at a place that expected 110%. I don't think anyone is bashing the K-9 handlers but more so the lack of training that they have. When a dog is needed to do a job and it lacks many things in training that is going to effect it in real situations and when there is stress. 


 

one bad control training session may not be a big deal but if the dogs truly do not out on a still decoy, and bad training habits are a constant then it is cause for worry as bad training leads to bad deployments and that can lead to bad case law which effects every officer, as they are going to have to work under the consequences. 

There is no theorizing about certification, the dog is either certified or it is not. 

As a PSD handler, trainer for more than 30 years, my personal opinion is either too much prey drive or too much bite work or equipment affixiation. Just my opinion based on the videos. Unless you are there first hand and can observe in person any other problems that may be involved, hold your opinions.

I do agree with one response that too often more time is spent by PSD teams performing bite work than on a PSDs primary function which is "scent" work. Too often at workshops or seminars I see more teams in line to do suit work than at other venues requiring nose work.

I like to give very little bite rewards during search work, concentrating more on the hunt, and response given upon locating the quarry(s). I give (1) bite for every (5) searches as I want my partner to know how to engage or defend himself upon locating a violent or resisting offender.. The rest the dog indicates by verbal response. I also do very little regimented training. The majority of our training is scenario based., and yes our dogs for the most part out on command as well as perform a call off prior to engaging the quarry.