check out this show/working cross. - Page 2

GSDPACK, I saw that too and asumed it was a bad babblefish translation from something that made sense in German.

He's a beautiful dog, very impressive scores and FH's to boot. NICE! I'd love to see him work.

Chris, do you know the dog, seen him?

No Michele, I do not know him. I just read comments about him on the German board and they are very favorable towards him and a couple other crosses, like for example Lewis von Arlett. Now, I do know Lewis personally and can tell that he is a great dog with a very nice owner who is not into breeding, showing or politics. He just owns this one dog and wants to have fun with him. My impression from the personal website of Max's owner is that it is similar with him.
And now here come posters and want to bash that again (no, smartguy, I did not mean you). Same old crap. I usually do not even bother to post here anymore but could not help myself this time (since I have followed and participated on DSH-Biz - the German board). It is so derogatory, it bothers me.

Jettasmom,
since you are generally so negative about everything, it is time for you to tell everybody about your scores, achievements etc. How old was your dog when you finally achieved the titles? What are the scores? Which one of your statements best describes your dog: shitty dog with good scores or good dog with shitty scores? What are your excuses? Is your dog a good all around dog, suitable for breeding (health, structure, temperament etc)? You are really a likeable person and I am sure with your personality you have lots of true friends. I wish you lots of luck in your life.

GSDPack,
Steffi did use an online translator. I am sorry that it bothers anybody. It is just as bad as English speaking people trying to translate something into German (or Czech - I read that on another thread a while ago too). Steffi used some sloppy slang language, so I will not translate exactly every word, but here is the literal translation:
Max zu den grauen Birken is a beautiful male who also excels in protection work and has a super nice temperament. I had the pleasure of meeting him personally 2 weeks ago when I took my female Flora von der Dunieschenke for a breeding with him. Max is a dog that leaves nothing to be desired!

One more thing: Anybody who knows some of the judges from the scorebook can also tell you that Mr. Gerdes and Mr. Jansen do not ever give points away as a gift! The scores are really earned!

Silbersee,
You are correct about Heinz Gerdes.  I hae trialed under him and he has stayed at my house a couple of times.  He is very fair, but correct in his judging.  He is a BSP competitor and doesn't readily give away V scores.  If he gave that dog those scores, the dog deserved them.  He is a real gentleman, super nice and a fantastic judge.  He is also extremely knowledgeable.  I would trial under him any time, he is a super guy and a great judge.  I actually named my current dog after his former dog; Boomer vom Emsbogen.  My k9's call name is "Boomer." 

Jim

The dog got quite few titles and I don't think it would be easy to give all of them to him for nothing (especially the V's don't come for free). So just based on that I would assume he can work, how well can he work? I don't know but I won't piss allover this dog just because he is a cross of working/showline, shit I am actually happy that someone is doing it and getting good results. Jettasmom what's wrong with crossing WL/SL? are we not all about improving the breed? I seen few SL dogs that could work, and I seen quite few WL that could not work, so lets not generalize, because this is not what this is really about.

"Jettasmom what's wrong with crossing WL/SL? are we not all about improving the breed?"

I think the issue you'll find people have with a breeding like this, snajper, is a question of genetics.  This breeding is what is referred to as an outcross which makes it sort of a crapshoot.  While it is possible, as appears to have happened with this particular dog, to get good results that mix good qualities from both lines, it is also possible that the puppies won't end up with the best qualities of either parent.  Usually, you would expect some of each and a lot in between.  One advantage to outcrossing if both parents are fairly clear of defects genetically is that it can produce dogs that have what is commonly referred to as hybrid vigor, that is, stronger, healthier specimens of the breed.  The downside is that is that this dog is essentially an F1 (first generation) hybrid, incapable of reliably reproducing the traits that may have been the goal of the outcross to begin with.  It would take several generations of selection and line breedings to reestablish any sort of predictability in the outcome.  It's a pretty long and complicated path to "improving" the breed.

I understand your point Keith, and I know that it would be harder to know the final result of this kind of breeding, but please correct me if I am wrong, isn't this exatly the same way the breed came around simillar to that kind of breeding? Two dogs with good traits being put together to improve and create favoriable traits. Surre is long road with lots of surprise but is it wrong? Is it more wrong than breeding two working line dogs together or two showline dogs together? I don't think so. I belive that it might be a step in the right direction to bring both camps closer together (wl/sl). Plus wl/wl and sl/sl is a crapshoot as well so whats the real difference? I think people are afraid of the change rather than anything else. And the way the breed is together I think is good idea to outcross every now and than, rather than stepping it the same mess every time. I am just tired of seeing breeders liine breeding the living shit out of their dogs, hopeing they will reproduce the great dogs behind their dogs. Outcrossing can bring more positive changes than pottenial negative. But that is just my opinion.

 WOW. I just posted this to comment on how stunning this dog looks. I did not mean to start all the rest. Sorry to the owner for creating this mayhem. 

It's a very good post......don't be sorry.
We TOO will be incorporating WL & SL in our breeding program.  We will breed to the dogs that will help contribute what we feel nessesary for the future of our dogs.....be it WL bloodline or SL bloodline.
Out crossing  can help produce the positive changes that "both" bloodlines need....in structure and temperment.
Thinking that only the SL dogs are in "dire straits" is pathetic.......BOTH bloodlines are in trouble.

Ignorance & predjudice can contribute  to the "death" of many things.........
JMO
Robin

Good job Robin and wish you best in your breeding program. I agree that more breeders need to breed for balance rather than one thing over another. Outcrossing will bring a lot of good changes to the breed, in years to come.