workingline best new stud - Page 16

Daryl,
You brought up people and their ability to handle and work dogs on this thread, that is why I asked.  There have been threads started directly related to that and I have never seen you respond.  Perhaps, I missed it. 

I do agree that some people have taken the opportunity for self promotion  of upcoming litters on this thread.  I don't really see some of them as having the best new working line stud, IMO.  Most unproven possibly, youngest maybe but we don't know about "best" yet from those dogs.  Only time will tell, maybe they will be the next great dog....maybe not.


Jeff,
I'm into working dogs, specifically dogs with high drive and a serious, strong temperament.  I'm sure Daryl breeds nice dogs.  However, I want a dog from a breeder that works their dogs, titles their dogs and competes on a high level with their own dogs.  To me that is the total package.  I've been around GSD's long enough and know enough top level competitors and breeders to find a pup from proven stock.   When I look for a puppy, I want to know that it's parents, and siblings work and have been tested.  I wouldn't consider a dog from an 18 month old pup as the stud, that is just not proven or a consideration for me.  

When choosing a pup, the pedigree tells part of the story.  The ability of the sire to produce strong dogs is another part of the story.  The dam is an even bigger part of the story.  I look at the accomplishments, health, temperament and working ability of the parents then I look at what they have produced. I also look at the litter mates of the sire and dam and see what they have done.  Puppies are a crap shoot, but when you analyze those components you can hedge your bets a little. 

An example would be the sire and dam of my current dog.  They have produced numerous national level competition dogs and many excellent Police K9's.  That is something I consider when looking for a pup.   

I have been offered pups for free in the past and last night I was offered a pup from a super upcoming breeding.  This breeding will be something for me to consider.  An outstanding working line breeding and I get to work both parents if I want before the litter is even bred.  The lines on this breeding are superior, both dogs are real working PPD's, not sport dogs.  I know several high end working line breeders that my next dog will come from, either here or in Europe.  There are tons of big and small breeders producing nice dogs, I'm going to stick with those that work their dogs and I can see proven results. 

That's just me.

Jim

 Quote: 
I have been offered pups for free in the past and last night I was offered a pup from a super upcoming breeding.

Which breeding ? Who are the parents ?

Quote:  I wouldn't consider a dog from an 18 month old pup as the stud, that is just not proven or a consideration for me.

I am guessing you are referring to Esko, as Daryl doesn't have an 18 month old dog.

Here are some dogs that some people refer to as serious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQqClJSwgpQ

THis one is referred to as a "living legend" 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCMDWvIMxJA

I have heard this dog is serious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOeMgSSta18

Here is a ring three dog that seems pretty strong

http://www.relaiscanin.fr/chiens/video/tex/videotex.htm

Here is another that doesn't suck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHEnQFVDLfA


I guess it depends on what you want. Most people are not breeders, and never will be. Most people need to have their hand held while they get a pup. All those dogs will be in Esko's pups pedigree, as well as Gary, the dog that I posted doing ring a while back. I cannot find video of many of the dogs in Esko's pedigree, they are not as prolific with a video camera as Sch people are. If you look, you will find that there are many many ring dogs in his pedigree. Quite a bit harder than Sch.

I have already seen what I need to with my dogs. I watched my 6 month old dog stand in the door while a stranger ran straight at him shooting a gun and throwing things at him. He almost got a bite. He then went right on and worked just fine. Would of had it on video, but the GF was afraid he would run, and didn't video it, as she knows I would have posted that on youtube as well. 

But, I don't have to worry about wether or not you want a dog from me. I just thought if you have all these questions about Daryl's breedings, maybe you get a pup and see for yourself instead of asking him.

daryll , you question urxi"s hips and production of that , if thats really important to you  , why do you have no hip and elbow results on any of your dogs on the website?

as far as titled dogs for breeding , it takes the same effort to breed a not titled dog , as  it does to buy a titled dog and breed it , so no difference there for me , only the one who buys titled dogs for breedingpurposes is a bit better businessman/woman , but no guarantee to produce better or healthier pups  IMO

duke, am I promoting my dogs here?  No, I'm not!  We don't need to know about the dogs we're NOT discussing on this thread, do we?  If you don't think that a linebreeding on Klara, in a producer of 1/1 hips is of significant enough reason to ask how the offspring are turning out, then I feel most sorry for you.  But, it was MY QUESTION, and it was RELEVANT to the discussion here, and it was most certainly NOT DIRECTLY answered!

Jim, how many high level competitors (in the U.S.) are even breeders at all, or even know all that much about bloodlines?  Could you make a chart so I can better understand?  There are some really great trainers that are high level competitors that do breed, but I can promise you I would NOT buy from them.  That line of thinking is flawed, IMO.

Shelly, thank you for answering that. I still have several questions about how things work in the US as far was what club to join etc. In Germany it is easy. SV. Jeff to answer you I will do SCH as I did in Germany. I feel somwhat isolated where I live since the closest club is 2.5 hours away. So it sounds if and when I am ready to breed my dog you would be a knowledgeable resource for pickig a nice workline stud?

Quote:

"only the one who buys titled dogs for breeding purposes is a bit better businessman/woman"
 
This is bull shit! It takes absolutely no talent to buy another persons work and breed it. You want to impress! breed dogs that you have owned from pups and worked. That is good business. Better yet it,s good for the breed.

My fortunate last response, I do have to work.
Poster asks about registrations and Shelly's response is great thanks-
post started about stud dogs.  Then there is a bit of digression.  Daryl has an issue with a fellow PO who leased a stud dog from me.  Oh well, so behavior becomes that  snake that wanted to cross the river.  Keep it between you two please. 

Back to the post: The art of choosing that correct dog means you see the correct papers and correct information and one should have that  access.  Not every bit of information on the internet or websites is valid. But that problem needs to be brought forward. 

Breeding is to maintain or better and being successful at that is because one has a thorough understanding of genetics function not just an internet research of the subject.  This is where I offered input and education and some guidance.  Not an I know all philosophy but a guide through information of what is bred -  this is a forum.

Back to successful stud dogs. 
If True von Schafferstolz were alive today, C hips, no one would breed to him, but he produced Ciro z Pohranicni Straze, (0/0)one of the best working dogs for his time and countless others.,or Coky Venusina sopka   or for you german dog enthusiasts, Pike von der Schaffbachmuhle or Timmy/Troll breedings that show some spondylosis.   Oh the quest for the perfect dog is not so simple. (and I love the Pike  and Timmy dogs!)  This was an earlier thread,  "genetics, environment, nutrition? Good breeders keep accurate and forthright records, collect data and share that openly.  It's not a business requirement, it is ethics.    

Hedi, it is great to see you want to compete and we hope to see you at a USA sanctioned trial. 

Thanks , A wonderful and peaceful holiday to all. 

Nancy Rhynard
www.westwoodkennels.com

bob , if you read my post again , you will see that Im saying the same as you , but its a selling tool to breed with titled dogs you buy , and definately easyer to sell the pups as many believe it will bring better pups

daryll , if you read my post . I dont care for titles in breeding , but yes I do train and title my own dogs , and have all my dogs X rayed , the older ones for hips , the youngers for hips back and elbows

if you claim on your site that your dogs are coming from the statisticly best hipproducing dogs in the world , it would be more impressive to show some ofa exelents , with your breedingstock

 "Daryl has an issue with a fellow PO who leased a stud dog from me. Oh well, so behavior becomes that snake that wanted to cross the river. Keep it between you two please. "

I will, Nancy.  And in all fairness, I was not criticizing the PO either.  Just making a point that was related to the difficulty it presented for me.