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by zdog on 13 June 2013 - 13:06
and again, the reason was given probably at least 10 times in this thread already. Really this is my last one. You can pick on my decoy skills, call me a nobody, I don't care what you think Thomas. I don't care if you don't know my name. I don't care if you don't remember my cute little name. I used to have a little respect for you because you at least stepped on the competition field, but that has quickly faded.
I've caught plenty of world class dogs. Hella vom Tasmenischen Teufel when she first came to this country, a couple of Staatsmacht dogs, did my cert with Harro, Hutch waldwinkle when he first got here and was still fast, a lot of dogs in ringsport on sleeves and suits. Try that once, catch a dog hauling ass that has spent the past 3 years biting your legs and throw a sleeve up at him, lots of thoughts run thru your mind in the moment :) and many other bangers you'll never hear of that come every bit as fast as Ebor. I know what i'm capable of and so do the people I train with. What you think of me, ??? that matters. You try and analyze helper work you've never done, You critique from a computer about a situation you've never been in. You think it's "supposed" to happen one way, when in reality it doesn't. There's a large difference between what you read and write on the internet and what happens on the field.
I know enough that when a dog comes in fast and low, you're in a bad situation. I've been there, more than once. There isn't much good happening then and the faster they are and the lower they go, the harder it is. This dog came right underneath and was very fast. They most often don't care when or where the sleeve is presented, if you had caught dogs like that before you'd know. if that had been you??? You'd probably up for a double knee replacement and we'd have a dead dog on our hands. YOU should know better, your sidekick? he has never nor will he ever do anything. Why he even has an opinion?? who knows.
you have no idea what the dog was doing coming down the field, YOU don't have Marcus' perspective. He's good, he's damn good and for you to sit here on your ass and criticize day after day says something about you. I trust that he did everything in that moment to be safe and correct, especially in a very tough situation. There is nothing in the video or pictures to say otherwise other than nitpick from a perfect ideal standpoint. You try and make up rules about targets and this has to happen and that has to happen and I can tell you, you are full of shit. You're making stuff up. I've personally had judges tell me, RUN THRU THE DOG. it wasn' t KNPV it wasn't anything other than schutzhund. I had another, to get his point across, tell me he didn't want to see a target till the dog was biting me, of course he was being facetious, but his point was the sleeve was to be intentionally held down until the absolute last possible moment.
Dogs that come up under are not all that fun. You can't throw up a chest high target when they're 30 feet down the field, you can't see the dog and it most often doesn't matter. If you had ever in your life attempted what you are so "good" at critiquing you'd know that. All it does is cause the helper to loose site of the dog, which does a lot for the safety of everyone involved right??? LOL I learned that early on. Put up the target and they'd come underneath and blow you up anyway, only difference now is I've only presented them with the bottom of the sleeve and a very poor presentation from which to bite from,AND I can't see a fucking thing the dog is doing for the last 20 feet till he's one me. But that doesn't matter for your little argument either does it???
Then you come with some crap about the look on his face. Of course he was disappointed and felt responsible. I had a dog almost DQ for not outing after posting 98's or better in both tracking and OB. This dog was also at this competition btw. he outed on the 3rd and final command on the last bite out of the reattack. i felt responsible and bad. Why? Because I just do, like most helpers, we're invested in how the dogs do. Doesn't mean anything was my fault. i could be crying on the ground like a little girl beating it with a stick and if the handler says out, the dog should out. Especially a dog at this level. My friend had a dog come in on a blind search and grip and didn't out. DQ immediately. He felt horrible and beat himself up for 2 weeks afterwards, why??? he didn't do anything wrong. Doesn't mean he didn't feel responsible. I'm sure the same was for Marcus. He's probably playing it over in his mind 10 thousand times to find ways to get a better outcome and wishing it could have happened that way. Still doesn't mean he cost Ebor anything.
The dog didn't do him any favors, he's an excellent dog, this trial doesn't change that but he certainly didn't put him in a good position Marcus worked a very good event and did it very well. The dog had a grip and lost it. You can make up all the stuff you want, the sleeve was too low, not it wasn't, when it was time to grip, it was right where it needed to be. You can argue he turned too early, he didn't and we can see the dog had every opportunity to bite. You can argue he left his feet, and anybody that has ever been in that situation knows exactly why, you SHOULD know too. If you really don't know, go to a UScA or WDA helper college. I've done both and they both taught the same damn thing for that situation. you can argue all your little points because it's what you do.
anyway, i'm sure none of this matters to you. But it does say something about you when you sit and nitpick something that wasn't perfect that arose from a situation where nothing was perfect to start with. You SHOULD have enough respect for those involved to accept that while not perfect, it wasn't wrong either. He didn't take his stick hand and push the dogs mouth away from the sleeve or anything like that. It's part of the sport and move on. But you can't can you? You should be ashamed of yourself.
Carry on
I've caught plenty of world class dogs. Hella vom Tasmenischen Teufel when she first came to this country, a couple of Staatsmacht dogs, did my cert with Harro, Hutch waldwinkle when he first got here and was still fast, a lot of dogs in ringsport on sleeves and suits. Try that once, catch a dog hauling ass that has spent the past 3 years biting your legs and throw a sleeve up at him, lots of thoughts run thru your mind in the moment :) and many other bangers you'll never hear of that come every bit as fast as Ebor. I know what i'm capable of and so do the people I train with. What you think of me, ??? that matters. You try and analyze helper work you've never done, You critique from a computer about a situation you've never been in. You think it's "supposed" to happen one way, when in reality it doesn't. There's a large difference between what you read and write on the internet and what happens on the field.
I know enough that when a dog comes in fast and low, you're in a bad situation. I've been there, more than once. There isn't much good happening then and the faster they are and the lower they go, the harder it is. This dog came right underneath and was very fast. They most often don't care when or where the sleeve is presented, if you had caught dogs like that before you'd know. if that had been you??? You'd probably up for a double knee replacement and we'd have a dead dog on our hands. YOU should know better, your sidekick? he has never nor will he ever do anything. Why he even has an opinion?? who knows.
you have no idea what the dog was doing coming down the field, YOU don't have Marcus' perspective. He's good, he's damn good and for you to sit here on your ass and criticize day after day says something about you. I trust that he did everything in that moment to be safe and correct, especially in a very tough situation. There is nothing in the video or pictures to say otherwise other than nitpick from a perfect ideal standpoint. You try and make up rules about targets and this has to happen and that has to happen and I can tell you, you are full of shit. You're making stuff up. I've personally had judges tell me, RUN THRU THE DOG. it wasn' t KNPV it wasn't anything other than schutzhund. I had another, to get his point across, tell me he didn't want to see a target till the dog was biting me, of course he was being facetious, but his point was the sleeve was to be intentionally held down until the absolute last possible moment.
Dogs that come up under are not all that fun. You can't throw up a chest high target when they're 30 feet down the field, you can't see the dog and it most often doesn't matter. If you had ever in your life attempted what you are so "good" at critiquing you'd know that. All it does is cause the helper to loose site of the dog, which does a lot for the safety of everyone involved right??? LOL I learned that early on. Put up the target and they'd come underneath and blow you up anyway, only difference now is I've only presented them with the bottom of the sleeve and a very poor presentation from which to bite from,AND I can't see a fucking thing the dog is doing for the last 20 feet till he's one me. But that doesn't matter for your little argument either does it???
Then you come with some crap about the look on his face. Of course he was disappointed and felt responsible. I had a dog almost DQ for not outing after posting 98's or better in both tracking and OB. This dog was also at this competition btw. he outed on the 3rd and final command on the last bite out of the reattack. i felt responsible and bad. Why? Because I just do, like most helpers, we're invested in how the dogs do. Doesn't mean anything was my fault. i could be crying on the ground like a little girl beating it with a stick and if the handler says out, the dog should out. Especially a dog at this level. My friend had a dog come in on a blind search and grip and didn't out. DQ immediately. He felt horrible and beat himself up for 2 weeks afterwards, why??? he didn't do anything wrong. Doesn't mean he didn't feel responsible. I'm sure the same was for Marcus. He's probably playing it over in his mind 10 thousand times to find ways to get a better outcome and wishing it could have happened that way. Still doesn't mean he cost Ebor anything.
The dog didn't do him any favors, he's an excellent dog, this trial doesn't change that but he certainly didn't put him in a good position Marcus worked a very good event and did it very well. The dog had a grip and lost it. You can make up all the stuff you want, the sleeve was too low, not it wasn't, when it was time to grip, it was right where it needed to be. You can argue he turned too early, he didn't and we can see the dog had every opportunity to bite. You can argue he left his feet, and anybody that has ever been in that situation knows exactly why, you SHOULD know too. If you really don't know, go to a UScA or WDA helper college. I've done both and they both taught the same damn thing for that situation. you can argue all your little points because it's what you do.
anyway, i'm sure none of this matters to you. But it does say something about you when you sit and nitpick something that wasn't perfect that arose from a situation where nothing was perfect to start with. You SHOULD have enough respect for those involved to accept that while not perfect, it wasn't wrong either. He didn't take his stick hand and push the dogs mouth away from the sleeve or anything like that. It's part of the sport and move on. But you can't can you? You should be ashamed of yourself.
Carry on
by bubbabooboo on 13 June 2013 - 13:06
The video says different .. videos don't lie .. Ivan and Ebor lost because of a helper error not because the "winners" were better that day. The bluray version of Ivan and Ebor will show all in crystal clear detail. I look forward to posting those screen grabs in their entirety.
by Schznd on 13 June 2013 - 14:06
I think anyone who has not stood on that field and caught dogs of this caliber has no right to hammer this guy like this. Marcus is one of the best helpers in the country and one of the nicest guys on and off the field. He would never do anything but try his absolute best to help every dog as much as possible. These guys do what most people in the sport would never do. This is all BULLSHIT, jerking arms, pulling it out of the dog’s mouth, leaving air to bite, jumping 18 inches off the ground, spinning back flips, facial expressions, all crap. The dog hit the arm and clearly was on it in the photo, whatever happened after that, happened. You want everyone to believe that what occurred 15 feet away caused this, all bullshit. There were many dogs that were as fast or faster that weekend and Marcus caught them just fine and they made the grips just fine. So until you walk onto the field with an arm on, STFU.
And just to be clear, I'm not blaming Ebor either, it was a wet sloppy field that morning and there is never anything right or wrong when 2 bodies in motion come together at that speed. But, to shred Marcus like that and say that the real winners are not the winners is really low.
And Thomas is did you show a dog named Flann at the 2012 UDC?
And just to be clear, I'm not blaming Ebor either, it was a wet sloppy field that morning and there is never anything right or wrong when 2 bodies in motion come together at that speed. But, to shred Marcus like that and say that the real winners are not the winners is really low.
And Thomas is did you show a dog named Flann at the 2012 UDC?
by ramgsd on 13 June 2013 - 14:06
REALLY? You're still on this? The AWDF Champ. ended on May 19, 2013. Do you know what that means? It means that you have been posting about the same issue, and not making any headway for 25 days. And the people, and dog, that really had any stake in this have been training and working dogs for those same 25 days. Gentlemen if you haven't changed anyones mind in 7 pages and 25 days I think it's safe to say that another page/day of the same old, same old isn't going to do anything.
AWARDED TO THIS ENTIRE THREAD
by Bob McKown on 13 June 2013 - 15:06
Here Here!
by bubbabooboo on 13 June 2013 - 15:06
The bluray is going to be seen and shown as much as possible under copyright laws. The usual "you must believe us because we say so argument" .. when the bluray is shown all will be disclosed. The lower res video already reviewed showed what happened but for those who choose to make up a new version of history the bluray will show all in full HD quality. For those who refuse to acknowledge the truth the facts are always irrelevant, beating a dead horse, and very inconvenient.
by Markobytes on 13 June 2013 - 16:06
Zdoog, after your excellent post and what has been said already I believe nothing else can be said to minds that are closed and can not learn. It is pointless to continue, someone please put this thread out of it's misery.
by bubbabooboo on 13 June 2013 - 17:06
The bluray photos will be up next week if not before .. let's see what they show why don't we?? Apparently many people are interested in this topic and many dvd's and blurays have been ordered so perhaps someone else will post the proper series of screen grabs or frames before next week from a HD source. We don't want to miss a learning opportunity??
by Mystere on 13 June 2013 - 17:06
Admins--PLEASE!!
Zdoog, after your excellent post and what has been said already I believe nothing else can be said to minds that are closed and can not learn. It is pointless to continue, someone please put this thread out of it's misery.
Zdoog, after your excellent post and what has been said already I believe nothing else can be said to minds that are closed and can not learn. It is pointless to continue, someone please put this thread out of it's misery.
by msheplak on 13 June 2013 - 17:06
Wow, you guys are still going. Isn't it enough to politely agree to disagree?
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